yeah it shows.. he definitely didn’t do it because he loved the characters @philosopherking1887 :’)
I mean, this is obviously meant to be taken as a joke… but you can tell the ugly truth if you’re confident that everyone will take it as a joke. (Though I have to say, I think fame was at least as strong a motivation as money.)
Give me Loki stand proudly for himself, out of Thor’s shadow.
Give me Loki smiling arrogantly at his enemies.
Give me sassy Loki, tricky Loki, free-to-be-himself Loki.
Give me a Loki who doesn’t need to prove his value to anyone, even less to his brother.
Give me a Loki who doesn’t give up.
Give me a Jutunn Loki who uses his Frost Giant powers against Thanos. Or whoever else.
Give me Loki full of strength. Full of power. A Loki who doesn’t need to steal his strength to anywhere.
Give me a Loki in all his glorious God’s aspect. Radiant. Powerful. He’s a God: show us in all his rightful, strong aspect.
Give me a Loki proud of his Jotunn heritage, without renounce at the Asgardian culture.
Give me Loki as he deserves to be represented.
Just…..yes…THIS
This is what we all want for Loki and exactly what Marvel is going to rob him of. Prohibiting all this, also robs Tom of enjoying giving it to him. It would have been amazing to watch him do it.
Give me Loki laughing at Doctor Strange’s feeble attempts to use magic on him. Because someone who’s been using magic for millennia, who’s known for being quick-witted, who’s strong enough to imprison Odin for months, isn’t going to be defeated in five seconds by some human who’s just barely learned magic.
This ⬆
I was so upset and angry during all Dr. Strange’s scene. A scene with no sense at all. Impossible to occur if you stop and think seriously. I mean…come on!!
Who’s Dr. Strange? A sorcerer? An illusionist? A human being trained to be a magician? And who are you to think to have a tiny chance against a God?
A God.
Louder for the people in the back.
A God.
Maybe someone has forgotten it, or maybe it’s convenient to remarks only when they want point out that Loki is “the villain who cheats his brother with tricks”.
Well, guess what?
Loki is a God.
No, wait, it goes better and better.
Loki is a Frost Giant with the powers of his people, and an Asgardian God. Like Thor.
Frigga teaches him magic.
And he grows powerful.
He became a God. And a warrior.
He’s a God.
Does this thing works only for Thor?
Loki is a God, and all those funny tricks and golden sparkles in the air, can only makes him smirks more amused before to wipe him away from his sight with a gesture of the hand.
Only in the Thor-centered fantasy world of TW we have to see such idiocy as the “I’ve been falling for thirty minutes!” scene…
“only in the thor-centered…” i keep saying Ragnarok was “told” by Thor.
They shot. They deleted. Better not to shoot.
Never was such a rich and so incredibly robust character so thoroughly squandered, deprived of potential, and relegated to second rate status as the way Marvel has so diminished and wasted Loki. A profound shame.
Wait, what? There was a scene between just Loki and Hela? That might have been cool… but of course they couldn’t keep letting Loki upstage Thor. And the way the whole movie was written, it might have just served to make Loki look (even more) pathetic.
Wow Waititi is being a gross asshole today for no good reason. WTF man, it’s not your job to decide which Marvel movies should / will be done.
If it’s supposed to be humorous, I fail to see the humor.
He was always an asshole. The success of his film only showed off his Loki/Tom hating assholery.
Oh, thank goodness there are people on here who think this is rude! The first post I saw with pictures of these tweets was praising TW’s response. I get it if you don’t want a Loki movie–I don’t really want one either (I’d like the MCU to stop messing with Loki and Thor because they don’t care about them at all)–but the people in the comments of that post were mocking the twitter user, and found TW’s response hilarious and proper. Um, no. He could and should have just ignored this person. Instead, he utterly crushed them.
Sorry if you didn’t want those tags made more visible, @foundlingmother, but I do have something to say about this. I have noticed that certain Thorki shippers like to diminish Loki’s virtues and complexity and I kind of thought it might be an oppositional reaction to the “Loki’s Army”/ “Loki’s Resistance” types who absolve Loki of all guilt for his misdeeds and usually blame Odin and Thor (and Thanos, later) for all of Loki’s problems. These people sanctify Loki and demonize Thor as a bully/abuser, so the contrary reaction of the Thor stans is to sanctify Thor and demonize Loki.
This looks very odd if they ship Thor and Loki: why would you want a character you love and think is perfect to be with a character you despise and think has no redeeming qualities (other than physical attractiveness, maybe)? That’s part of why I suspect that the demonization of Loki is just a reaction to the contrary view, which (I gather) gained prominence in 2012-13; after Thor 1, which came out in 2011 (or maybe before they encountered Loki’s Resistance on Tumblr, if they entered the fandom later), such Thorki shippers may have recognized the interest and complexity of both characters, but started denying it later. The Thor-hating Loki stans, meanwhile, are at least consistent in that they never ship Loki with Thor; instead, they usually ship Loki with themselves or a self-insert OFC (sometimes named Sigyn for the sake of appearances).
Or maybe these Thorki shippers always despised Loki and they just think that Hiddleston and Hemsworth are hot together. Or maybe it’s just an acknowledgment that Thor (at least before Ragnarok) loves and values Loki and wants to be with him, and their idea of a happy resolution – like TW and CH’s, apparently – is for Loki to give up all independent agency and conform himself to Thor’s desires.
@philosopherking1887 Nah, I don’t mind. I just wasn’t going to add it since it wasn’t relevant.
I agree it’s very possible that it’s a reaction to those Loki fans, and I find it just as annoying. Oddly enough, however, I’ve found few people who really meet that description of a Loki stan. I mean, I’ve found people who meet a few of those criteria, who proclaim themselves to be part of the “Loki army” and/or ship Loki with themselves or Sigyn (and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that–ship whatever makes you happy), but they tend to be pretty reasonable, and have a nuanced perspective on Loki and Thor’s relationship and Loki’s crimes (at least, judging by how they interact with my meta on the subjects, and my Thor meta in particular). Maybe it’s just because of the part of the fandom I’m in being a Thorki shipper, but I find a lot more Loki-hating (or at least demeaning) Thor stans. (Of course, I’ve found both–those Loki fans do 100% exist and they are really weird. Loki’s done bad shit, guys.)
That may just be a product of my own bias, however. Perhaps I’m a mega Loki stan who only thinks they love Thor and Loki equally. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Some “Loki’s Army” members and/or Loki x self or Loki x OFC shippers have reasonable, well-balanced views; many do not. (I don’t condemn such ships, either, but I’m very definitely not into it.) I don’t always follow all the additions to your meta threads, so I’m not sure who you’re encountering, but I have noticed that many of the people who reblog and add their thoughts to my Ragnarok-critical posts are Loki stans of the type I dislike (i.e., they hate Thor and regard Loki as a blameless victim). (No, I’m not going to block them; I just sometimes feel the need to reblog again and clarify my own position.)
I think I encounter obnoxious stans of both types in about equal numbers. These days, I think the Thor stans annoy me more because (1) they have patently incorrect views about the quality of Thor: Ragnarok; (2) I used to respect some of them as writers and even have semi-friendly relationships with them, and I’m currently feeling seriously disillusioned; and (3) I feel protective ofLoki and I don’t want people shipping him with Thor if they have no respect for Loki and think the Thor of Thor: Ragnarok (or Thor*, as I’ve called him before) is a good version of Thor. I would never ship Loki with Thor*; I have to do some massive mental revisions of what went on in Ragnarok to justify continuing to ship Thor/Loki. I agree that their view isn’t really any less irritating if it was arrived at through reaction to the excesses of Loki’s Resistance; it’s a sign of epistemic and character weakness to be so reactive that you abandon your original balanced view for an unjustified extreme just to show your opposition to some other extremists.
The main reason I get annoyed with the Loki stans is because they co-opt my posts and add to the erroneous impression some people in the Thorki fandom seem to have that I share the views of Loki’s Resistance. Not that I should care what certain people think of me… but even if they hate me, I want them to hate me for the right reasons. Even Nietzsche was anxious not to be mistaken for someone he wasn’t, even though he fully acknowledged that most people would be horrified and offended by what he had to say.
NB: I don’t consider myself a “stan” for anyone. I am an avid Loki fan, but the term “stan” seems to me to have the connotation of acknowledging no faults.
Wow Waititi is being a gross asshole today for no good reason. WTF man, it’s not your job to decide which Marvel movies should / will be done.
If it’s supposed to be humorous, I fail to see the humor.
He was always an asshole. The success of his film only showed off his Loki/Tom hating assholery.
Oh, thank goodness there are people on here who think this is rude! The first post I saw with pictures of these tweets was praising TW’s response. I get it if you don’t want a Loki movie–I don’t really want one either (I’d like the MCU to stop messing with Loki and Thor because they don’t care about them at all)–but the people in the comments of that post were mocking the twitter user, and found TW’s response hilarious and proper. Um, no. He could and should have just ignored this person. Instead, he utterly crushed them.
I don’t think Marvel could make a Loki movie work, and certainly not with TW as director. But that’s not what was at play here. A very enthusiastic and probably young fan was dunked into dirt for all to see because she dared to @ a self-proclaimed “god”. So that said “god” could feed it’s own already morbidly fat ego.
Exactly. He doesn’t like Loki (can I say he hates him? Because it’s what I feel since the first time ) and he doesn’t even make any efforts to hide it, maybe only for politeness. Okay…
But this doesn’t give him the right to be such rude with a girl. A fan. It’s not his decision. He’s not entitled to give this kind of comment/answer. Where’s the respect toward people who go to see your movie? Who have paid money for seeing a bad parody and a mock of three previous movies? Who have paid money for seeing important characters broken in pieces or mocked or dismissed?
I really don’t understand…
He’s clearly contemptuous of Loki/Tom’s female fans and the movie made no secret of that contempt – as @fuckyeahrichardiii has observed, it’s like he was deliberately trying to drive them away.
Wow Waititi is being a gross asshole today for no good reason. WTF man, it’s not your job to decide which Marvel movies should / will be done.
If it’s supposed to be humorous, I fail to see the humor.
He was always an asshole. The success of his film only showed off his Loki/Tom hating assholery.
Oh, thank goodness there are people on here who think this is rude! The first post I saw with pictures of these tweets was praising TW’s response. I get it if you don’t want a Loki movie–I don’t really want one either (I’d like the MCU to stop messing with Loki and Thor because they don’t care about them at all)–but the people in the comments of that post were mocking the twitter user, and found TW’s response hilarious and proper. Um, no. He could and should have just ignored this person. Instead, he utterly crushed them.
Sorry if you didn’t want those tags made more visible, @foundlingmother, but I do have something to say about this. I have noticed that certain Thorki shippers like to diminish Loki’s virtues and complexity and I kind of thought it might be an oppositional reaction to the “Loki’s Army”/ “Loki’s Resistance” types who absolve Loki of all guilt for his misdeeds and usually blame Odin and Thor (and Thanos, later) for all of Loki’s problems. These people sanctify Loki and demonize Thor as a bully/abuser, so the contrary reaction of the Thor stans is to sanctify Thor and demonize Loki.
This looks very odd if they ship Thor and Loki: why would you want a character you love and think is perfect to be with a character you despise and think has no redeeming qualities (other than physical attractiveness, maybe)? That’s part of why I suspect that the demonization of Loki is just a reaction to the contrary view, which (I gather) gained prominence in 2012-13; after Thor 1, which came out in 2011 (or maybe before they encountered Loki’s Resistance on Tumblr, if they entered the fandom later), such Thorki shippers may have recognized the interest and complexity of both characters, but started denying it later. The Thor-hating Loki stans, meanwhile, are at least consistent in that they never ship Loki with Thor; instead, they usually ship Loki with themselves or a self-insert OFC (sometimes named Sigyn for the sake of appearances).
Or maybe these Thorki shippers always despised Loki and they just think that Hiddleston and Hemsworth are hot together. Or maybe it’s just an acknowledgment that Thor (at least before Ragnarok) loves and values Loki and wants to be with him, and their idea of a happy resolution – like TW and CH’s, apparently – is for Loki to give up all independent agency and conform himself to Thor’s desires.
If you’re a Thor/Loki shipper who dislikes what “Thor: Ragnarok” did to their characters,
could you please either (1) like this post if you’re not comfortable with your followers knowing or (2) reblog if you’re fine with letting them know? Reblogs are helpful for more exposure, too.
I ask because I’m feeling very alienated from the fandom right now. It seems that the Thorki fandom is dominated by people who like the way Ragnarok retconned Thor’s and Loki’s characters. Meanwhile, it seems that most of the people who object to the way it hollowed out Loki’s character are Loki stans who never liked Thor, and do not regard the Thor of Thor: Ragnarok as a radical departure from his character in previous films. So I’d like to get an idea of how many of my fellow shippers feel the way I do.
@philosopherking1887 I’m not really a Thorki shipper, though I enjoy the fanart and sometimes read certain fics. I’m in it for the sibling dynamic, most of all.
However, I also don’t fall under the category of the Thor hating Loki stan.
I’ve personally always seen Thor as someone who is kind of oblivious to Loki’s pain and suffering, rather than deliberately mean. He tries to reach out to Loki but due to the circumstances they’re in, it falls short somehow. His worldview seems too black and white, too simplistic, when put into perspective with Loki’s situation. And that’s the main cause of friction between them.
Perhaps the only time I felt really frustrated with Thor was when he visited Loki in his cell in TDW. I can understand that he doesn’t want to share his grief with his estranged brother, but he still could’ve answered Loki’s question regarding Frigga’s death. He essentially just told Loki that he was visiting merely because he wanted to use Loki’s skills. Of course, the whole Svartalfheim mission changes Thor’s perspective on Loki. (Which Ragnarok completely destroys, twisting the knife by making the whole thing into a big joke).
I wanted the brothers to carry on the positive turn in their relationship post Svartalfheim. Alas, that wasn’t to be. 🙁
It is no coincidence that my main fic is written in post TDW timeline, and I’ve tried, in my own way, to have the brothers address their issues and restore their sibling relationship.
TL: DR: I don’t hate Thor, but yes, I do hate what Ragnarok warped him into. I did like some of the banter between him and Loki, but a majority of it just rubbed me the wrong way. Same with how he treated Bruce.
OK, thanks. I am trying to get an accurate count of people who *currently* ship Thor/Loki, at least as they were in the movies before “Ragnarok,” possibly (as I do) assuming the basic events of “Ragnarok” as canon but with a very different construal of some of their actions than was intended by the film. If you are not a Thorki shipper, please do not like the post, because I don’t want to get an inflated impression of how many allies I have within the ship.
I love Thor and Loki both. They make each other whole with their duality. In my mind anyways. And all dynamics between them, be it familial or friends, lovers, enemies, ect. But I view Thor more through a comics eye, mish mashed with mcu Thor, and myth Thor. not how he was portrayed in Ragnarok at all. I’ll just ignore that.. I didnt know there were Loki stans that hated Thor though. I cant understand that one.. I mean..they made each other who they are growing up, so how can you hate one or the other.. I dont see Thor as being that dumb, or that mean spirited. He’s not dumb. I’ve been away from the MCU for a bit because Ragnarok just flattened it for me..for now anyways. Not hyped for IW either because of it..
They’re changing too many things with the characters like Steve imo.. seems like a repeat of Thor’s oocness. Seems like he’ll just be more like his actor Chris Evans than Steve Rogers/Cap.. But that’s another issue entirely..
There’s a contingent of people known as “Loki’s Resistance” who typically regard (MCU) Loki as a blameless victim throughout the films and Thor as little more than a bully and/or abuser. This is emphatically not my view of pre-Ragnarok Thor and Loki (and it annoys me when they co-opt my Ragnarok-critical posts…).
If you’re a Thor/Loki shipper who dislikes what “Thor: Ragnarok” did to their characters,
could you please either (1) like this post if you’re not comfortable with your followers knowing or (2) reblog if you’re fine with letting them know? Reblogs are helpful for more exposure, too.
I ask because I’m feeling very alienated from the fandom right now. It seems that the Thorki fandom is dominated by people who like the way Ragnarok retconned Thor’s and Loki’s characters. Meanwhile, it seems that most of the people who object to the way it hollowed out Loki’s character are Loki stans who never liked Thor, and do not regard the Thor of Thor: Ragnarok as a radical departure from his character in previous films. So I’d like to get an idea of how many of my fellow shippers feel the way I do.
@philosopherking1887 I’m not really a Thorki shipper, though I enjoy the fanart and sometimes read certain fics. I’m in it for the sibling dynamic, most of all.
However, I also don’t fall under the category of the Thor hating Loki stan.
I’ve personally always seen Thor as someone who is kind of oblivious to Loki’s pain and suffering, rather than deliberately mean. He tries to reach out to Loki but due to the circumstances they’re in, it falls short somehow. His worldview seems too black and white, too simplistic, when put into perspective with Loki’s situation. And that’s the main cause of friction between them.
Perhaps the only time I felt really frustrated with Thor was when he visited Loki in his cell in TDW. I can understand that he doesn’t want to share his grief with his estranged brother, but he still could’ve answered Loki’s question regarding Frigga’s death. He essentially just told Loki that he was visiting merely because he wanted to use Loki’s skills. Of course, the whole Svartalfheim mission changes Thor’s perspective on Loki. (Which Ragnarok completely destroys, twisting the knife by making the whole thing into a big joke).
I wanted the brothers to carry on the positive turn in their relationship post Svartalfheim. Alas, that wasn’t to be. 🙁
It is no coincidence that my main fic is written in post TDW timeline, and I’ve tried, in my own way, to have the brothers address their issues and restore their sibling relationship.
TL: DR: I don’t hate Thor, but yes, I do hate what Ragnarok warped him into. I did like some of the banter between him and Loki, but a majority of it just rubbed me the wrong way. Same with how he treated Bruce.
OK, thanks. I am trying to get an accurate count of people who *currently* ship Thor/Loki, at least as they were in the movies before “Ragnarok,” possibly (as I do) assuming the basic events of “Ragnarok” as canon but with a very different construal of some of their actions than was intended by the film. If you are not a Thorki shipper, please do not like the post, because I don’t want to get an inflated impression of how many allies I have within the ship.
If you’re a Thor/Loki shipper who dislikes what “Thor: Ragnarok” did to their characters,
could you please either (1) like this post if you’re not comfortable with your followers knowing or (2) reblog if you’re fine with letting them know? Reblogs are helpful for more exposure, too.
I ask because I’m feeling very alienated from the fandom right now. It seems that the Thorki fandom is dominated by people who like the way Ragnarok retconned Thor’s and Loki’s characters. Meanwhile, it seems that most of the people who object to the way it hollowed out Loki’s character are Loki stans who never liked Thor, and do not regard the Thor of Thor: Ragnarok as a radical departure from his character in previous films. So I’d like to get an idea of how many of my fellow shippers feel the way I do.
Have the people calling Thor the biggest Loki stan/apologist actually seen “Ragnarok”? Because Thor basically spends the entire movie calling Loki a horrible person except for when he does exactly what Thor wants him to because he gave him an ultimatum and electrocuted him.
This baffles me too. Because, in order to be his stan or even apologize on Loki’s behalf, Thor must, on some level, sympathize with him?
Which is not the case in Ragnarok, as you pointet out. It’s completely the opposite way. Thor not only can’t understand Loki at all, he doesn’t even try to.
I sometimes wonder if it’s an instance of projection, where these people project their own thoughts and emotions on to Thor or Loki and try to normalise their relationship in their head so much that it digresses from what actually happened in the movie.
I sometimes wonder if it’s an instance of projection, where these people project their own thoughts and emotions on to Thor or Loki and try to normalise their relationship in their head so much that it digresses from what actually happened in the movie.
The movie exuses Thor in his behaviour (or probably “encourages" is a better word), plus the movie is highly enjoyable and therefore appealing to the majority of an audience, plus no one watches Marvel movies to think deeply into it => people are likely to embrace what film frames as “normal”/”healthy” as
normal/healthy.
It’s very hard to doubt something that you liked that much and what brought you a joy. (That’s why I wish TW would use his talent more thoughtfully, it’s a very powerful tool in influencing people’s minds)
I feel like Thor started roasting Loki in the first Thor movie and hasn’t stopped since. “I must apologize for my brother. He’s a fucking idiot. Also he’s a adopted. And a terrible person…go team Avengers though, amirite???”
Obviously it’s fine for people to add their own opinions once I’ve put this post out in the Tumblr ether, but I want to make clear that I make a categorical distinction between the Thor of the first 4 movies we see him in (Thor 1, The Avengers, TDW, and AOU) and the Thor of Thor: Ragnarok. Following a philosophical convention, let us call these, respectively, Thor and Thor* (because I don’t really want to acknowledge that the person they call “Thor” in TR is even the same character).
I do not hate Thor. I am not comfortable saying that Thor was “abusive” to Loki. He was often insensitive and neglected Loki’s feelings, but the early movies acknowledged this as a flaw, connected with the immaturity and arrogance that he was working on getting over in Thor 1 and The Avengers. (I don’t completely buy the criticism that Thor was supposed to have miraculously become perfect in 3 days; I think The Avengers was deliberately showing that he still had some growing up to do.) In TDW and AOU, he still has some anger issues, and often has the impulse to take out his anger physically, but he’s generally more level-headed and is working on being sensitive to other people’s feelings. He obviously loves and cares about Loki, even if he doesn’t understand him and his very complicated emotions and isn’t always great about showing his love in the ways Loki needs.
If I took Thor* to be the same person as Thor, I might have to rethink my opinion of Thor’s character and I might hate him. I definitely hate Thor* and the fact that he has replaced Thor in the minds of much of the fandom, including the people who claim to be his biggest fans. I think Thor* is a dimwitted bully and buffoon who can lay claim to a kind of low cunning, but not much else. Thor* does not appear to care about Loki at all, certainly not about his inner life and motivations. He simply wants Loki to behave in the way Thor* considers virtuous and resorts to emotional manipulation and physical punishment to get his way. He is also manipulative and insensitive to Bruce and Hulk, despite his claim to be their friend.
I could certainly see Thor circa AOU being a Loki “stan”/apologist and defending Loki to the other Avengers after his heroic death. The phenomenon I was objecting to in the original post is people saying it specifically about Thor* post-Ragnarok. I’ve even seen people saying that the “I think everything is going to work out fine” line was his promise that he would protect Loki from the other Avengers and from any human attempts to hold Loki to account for his attack on Earth. I think it was pretty clear from the context – i.e., when Loki expresses concern, Thor* gives the obtuse, self-absorbed response “Earth loves me” – that he just hasn’t given much thought to what might happen to Loki on Earth.
Have the people calling Thor the biggest Loki stan/apologist actually seen “Ragnarok”? Because Thor basically spends the entire movie calling Loki a horrible person except for when he does exactly what Thor wants him to because he gave him an ultimatum and electrocuted him.
Loki is the Philosopher King 