villain sympathizer 4 life – Loki is the Philosopher King

in case anyone thought i was joking about villain discourse bingo. have fun guys.

burning-harvest:

Here’s what bothers me: the devotion to the Good Guys, and the adulation of the Good Guys, coupled with the refusal to sympathize or empathize with the Bad Guys.

It’s the thing I dislike about that one gif- the one that’s that guy going “Cool motive- still murder”.

I don’t think that anyone is obliged to emotionally care about or empathize with anyone else.

But I think that that’s not what’s happening here.

It seems like people notice that they are feeling sympathetic/empathetic towards Kylo Ren, then they specifically decide that he isn’t worthy of being sympathetic/empathetic towards because he’s a bad guy. That’s… a poor decision based on faulty ideas.

You don’t avoid evil or counter evil by Othering the bad guys. There is potential for evil within everyone, and there is too potential for good. Those who do evil things deserve to be cared for; and naturally arising feelings of care or relation or empathy shouldn’t be ignored.

Deliberately ignoring resonances with the Bad Guys prevents you from (1) exploring your own potential for darkness, managing it, determining whether it is truly evil, and drawing strength from it and (2) accurately viewing them as a full and actual person rather than as a standup strawman.

So much of it feels performative: I hate Kylo Ren and think he doesn’t “deserve” to be empathized with and therefore I’m a good person! I don’t feel connected to him in any way and would never make that kind of mistake!

That’s great. Really great. I’m glad that you’re perfect.

I’ve seen this before.

There’s a much bigger danger here then missing out on some fun media experience: not understanding how people do bad things, and worse, considering yourself someone who categorically cannot do bad things, is a set-up for doing bad things yourself.

Fiction, with the possibility of exploring characters who are labeled as “the bad guy” who still have understandable motives, are sympathetic, maybe even have Tragic Backstories of their own, helps us learn how to avoid repeating these mistakes, how to tell good ideas from ideas that in retrospect, will be “it seemed like a good idea at the time” ideas.

And yes, performance and purity are absolutely part of this.

joons:

“i like this villain!”

oh no, you don’t! you haven’t filled out the appropriate forms! you need better credentials. first fill out the following*:

do you admit–publicly, loudly, and continually–that you do not:

✔ condone

✔ accept ✔ understand

any of the villain’s immoral behavior, and that you do not:

✔ enjoy

✔ tolerate

✔ see any value whatsoever in

reading about actions that deviate from Current Puritan Norms, regardless of their merits as devices of narrative tension, character believability, and explorations of morality and empathy in a literary work?

X __________________

*you may waive signing this form if you can answer yes to the following question:

do you like the villain because you’re coping with a traumatic experience? if so, please describe your experience in as much detail as possible and publish the form for public viewing.

now you can say you like a villain on your blog!

…so, basically, the words “I like this villain” are meaningless.

transcoranic:

This idea that people should never relate to villains is so bizarre to me? Like? A villain that’s 0% relatable is a failed villain because part of the horror of villains is the way you see the steps that led them to where they are.

A good villain should leave you wondering what, exactly, separates you and the protagonist from them. A good villain should make you feel empathy, should make you understand how they got to be where they are, should be a little bit uncomfortably close-to-home. That’s what makes villains interesting

the-moogle-of-your-nightmares:

villains who switch sides due to personal convictions and not because they fell in love with a hero

villains who fall in love with a hero but refuse to switch sides due to personal convictions

villains who have feelings for heroes but aren’t willing to just ditch their life and everything they’ve worked for

sympathetic villains with goals and motivations other than heroic bonkybits