Wow Waititi is being a gross asshole today for no good reason. WTF man, it’s not your job to decide which Marvel movies should / will be done.
If it’s supposed to be humorous, I fail to see the humor.
He was always an asshole. The success of his film only showed off his Loki/Tom hating assholery.
Oh, thank goodness there are people on here who think this is rude! The first post I saw with pictures of these tweets was praising TW’s response. I get it if you don’t want a Loki movie–I don’t really want one either (I’d like the MCU to stop messing with Loki and Thor because they don’t care about them at all)–but the people in the comments of that post were mocking the twitter user, and found TW’s response hilarious and proper. Um, no. He could and should have just ignored this person. Instead, he utterly crushed them.
Sorry if you didn’t want those tags made more visible, @foundlingmother, but I do have something to say about this. I have noticed that certain Thorki shippers like to diminish Loki’s virtues and complexity and I kind of thought it might be an oppositional reaction to the “Loki’s Army”/ “Loki’s Resistance” types who absolve Loki of all guilt for his misdeeds and usually blame Odin and Thor (and Thanos, later) for all of Loki’s problems. These people sanctify Loki and demonize Thor as a bully/abuser, so the contrary reaction of the Thor stans is to sanctify Thor and demonize Loki.
This looks very odd if they ship Thor and Loki: why would you want a character you love and think is perfect to be with a character you despise and think has no redeeming qualities (other than physical attractiveness, maybe)? That’s part of why I suspect that the demonization of Loki is just a reaction to the contrary view, which (I gather) gained prominence in 2012-13; after Thor 1, which came out in 2011 (or maybe before they encountered Loki’s Resistance on Tumblr, if they entered the fandom later), such Thorki shippers may have recognized the interest and complexity of both characters, but started denying it later. The Thor-hating Loki stans, meanwhile, are at least consistent in that they never ship Loki with Thor; instead, they usually ship Loki with themselves or a self-insert OFC (sometimes named Sigyn for the sake of appearances).
Or maybe these Thorki shippers always despised Loki and they just think that Hiddleston and Hemsworth are hot together. Or maybe it’s just an acknowledgment that Thor (at least before Ragnarok) loves and values Loki and wants to be with him, and their idea of a happy resolution – like TW and CH’s, apparently – is for Loki to give up all independent agency and conform himself to Thor’s desires.
@philosopherking1887 Nah, I don’t mind. I just wasn’t going to add it since it wasn’t relevant.
I agree it’s very possible that it’s a reaction to those Loki fans, and I find it just as annoying. Oddly enough, however, I’ve found few people who really meet that description of a Loki stan. I mean, I’ve found people who meet a few of those criteria, who proclaim themselves to be part of the “Loki army” and/or ship Loki with themselves or Sigyn (and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that–ship whatever makes you happy), but they tend to be pretty reasonable, and have a nuanced perspective on Loki and Thor’s relationship and Loki’s crimes (at least, judging by how they interact with my meta on the subjects, and my Thor meta in particular). Maybe it’s just because of the part of the fandom I’m in being a Thorki shipper, but I find a lot more Loki-hating (or at least demeaning) Thor stans. (Of course, I’ve found both–those Loki fans do 100% exist and they are really weird. Loki’s done bad shit, guys.)
That may just be a product of my own bias, however. Perhaps I’m a mega Loki stan who only thinks they love Thor and Loki equally. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Some “Loki’s Army” members and/or Loki x self or Loki x OFC shippers have reasonable, well-balanced views; many do not. (I don’t condemn such ships, either, but I’m very definitely not into it.) I don’t always follow all the additions to your meta threads, so I’m not sure who you’re encountering, but I have noticed that many of the people who reblog and add their thoughts to my Ragnarok-critical posts are Loki stans of the type I dislike (i.e., they hate Thor and regard Loki as a blameless victim). (No, I’m not going to block them; I just sometimes feel the need to reblog again and clarify my own position.)
I think I encounter obnoxious stans of both types in about equal numbers. These days, I think the Thor stans annoy me more because (1) they have patently incorrect views about the quality of Thor: Ragnarok; (2) I used to respect some of them as writers and even have semi-friendly relationships with them, and I’m currently feeling seriously disillusioned; and (3) I feel protective ofLoki and I don’t want people shipping him with Thor if they have no respect for Loki and think the Thor of Thor: Ragnarok (or Thor*, as I’ve called him before) is a good version of Thor. I would never ship Loki with Thor*; I have to do some massive mental revisions of what went on in Ragnarok to justify continuing to ship Thor/Loki. I agree that their view isn’t really any less irritating if it was arrived at through reaction to the excesses of Loki’s Resistance; it’s a sign of epistemic and character weakness to be so reactive that you abandon your original balanced view for an unjustified extreme just to show your opposition to some other extremists.
The main reason I get annoyed with the Loki stans is because they co-opt my posts and add to the erroneous impression some people in the Thorki fandom seem to have that I share the views of Loki’s Resistance. Not that I should care what certain people think of me… but even if they hate me, I want them to hate me for the right reasons. Even Nietzsche was anxious not to be mistaken for someone he wasn’t, even though he fully acknowledged that most people would be horrified and offended by what he had to say.
NB: I don’t consider myself a “stan” for anyone. I am an avid Loki fan, but the term “stan” seems to me to have the connotation of acknowledging no faults.
Lol… In so much as you can have a personal understanding when it comes to discussing aliens. But yes, I have personal experience with people doubting how much pain I’m in, and so I take issue when people gauge someone’s pain based on their ability to continue functioning. Furthermore, I’ve had numerous experiences when I’ve been in intense pain, but as soon as painkillers kick in I have a spring in my step. That relief can make a person very springy. So the whole idea that Loki springing up means he couldn’t have really been in pain is weird to me.
Taking sides with Thor and Loki is such a weird thing to see in the Thorki fandom (which most of the people I follow belong to). You’d think you’d like both of them, care about both of them when they’re in pain, etc. if you were going to ship them together. I like examining their flaws, suffering, and good qualities. I might focus more on Loki, since I’ll admit I find his struggles more compelling, but I have a great deal of sympathy for Thor. I love him. I think he’s a good, altruistic person (unlike Loki who I would call a neutral, selfish person), and it’s a shame he had Odin for a father (more on that Moday ;D).
As I said, I don’t hate Thor for using the obedience disk on Loki, but I do find it uncomfortable that he leaves it going (as I also just find it uncomfortable when it’s used at all… it’s a gross device), because I do think of the obedience disk as a torture device (it’s designed to force people to obey a man who enjoys watching people kill each other for sport…). I don’t think Thor would torture Loki, so I call bullshit on him just leaving it running when he no longer needs to disable Loki to enable his escape from Sakaar. Thor’s characterization in Ragnarok is entirely too cruel and thoughtless imo, even when one factors in his father’s passing.
Valkyrie begins her part in Ragnarok as someone complicit in the enslavement of Thor and others.
Her actions with Thor aren’t excusable. She disables him with a torture device and sells him into slavery. Thor even gets frustrated with her for this.
In her grief, she’s forgone any sense of duty to other people. She’s allowed herself to become selfish. She earns her redemption by helping to free the slaves, and by going to fight Hela.
Other people’s experience may be different, but it seems that within the Thorki fandom, all of the side-taking favors Thor at Loki’s expense. With people who have been in the fandom longer, this seems to be a knee-jerk over-reaction to the “Loki apologists” (i.e., unconditional justifiers) of “Loki’s Resistance.” With more recent entrants, it seems to be a matter of people having watched Ragnarok first and just accepted its characterization of Thor and Loki and presentation of their relationship – namely: Thor is Always Right; his only flaw is trusting Loki too much, and it was great that he wised up and gave Loki his comeuppance; and Loki is an “overdramatic pissbaby” who has no legitimate complaints against Thor or anyone else in Asgard and just needs to grow up and get over himself.
There definitely are people who always take Loki’s side and demonize Thor – the aforementioned “Loki’s Resistance”; but in my experience, such people are never Thorki shippers. They usually ship Loki with themselves, or with OFCs (often fantasy self-inserts); sometimes they name the OFC Sigyn for some mythological respectability. Maybe you get the occasional Sif/Loki or Frostiron shipper in this category. They are wildly off-base in their interpretation and assessment of both Thor’s and Loki’s actions, but at least they’re consistent in not shipping someone they consider morally perfect with someone they consider morally bankrupt.
What I absolutely do not understand is why people who think Thor is a blameless cinnamon roll would ship him with Loki if they think Loki is nothing but a narcissistic, self-absorbed, sadistic piece of shit who fucks people over for no reason. So… you basically hate one member of your OTP? If you really think that, go ship Thor with Steve or someone equally bland and virtuous. And yeah, I know that shipping isn’t necessarily about healthy relationships. God knows I don’t think Thor/Loki is a healthy relationship as it stands, though maybe with a LOT of work it could be. But I also don’t think I could get behind a ship that involves one party you think is perfect and another party who you think needs to be whipped into shape/beaten into submission by the first party. That’s not even interesting. Give me a ship where both partners are flawed, where they have the opportunity to grow and change together.
Loki is the Philosopher King 