An interpretive note about “Thor: Ragnarok”

philosopherking1887:

Spoilers!! under the cut.

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@writernotwaiting replied:

Actually this is exactly what I thought–neither one of them looked at all worried that Loki wasn’t going to make it out alive; Thor just seemed to assume that Loki had buggered off somewhere else, and was frankly thrilled that he chose to stick with his brother, instead

You didn’t have the moment of “huh?” that I did before you arrived at this interpretation?

regarding “we were eight”

raven-brings-light:

I’ve often wondered how Odin and Frigga passed Loki off as their child when it had to have been obvious that Frigga wasn’t pregnant a second time. One option I’d idly entertained in the past was that Odin brought Loki back just as Frigga was giving birth to Thor and they’re like “WOOPS LOOKS LIKE IT WAS TWINS”…but they still called Thor the “firstborn” because one of the twins had to have been born first…and I bet Thor would really rub it in and call Loki his little brother all the time…and Loki would be gritting his teeth like “BY SEVEN MINUTES YOU OAF.”

Also, if that was true, the kind of ironic thing would be Loki may actually have been born first.

ANYWAY.

Pointless (probably wrong) speculation, brought to mind again by that bit of dialogue. 😀

An interpretive note about “Thor: Ragnarok”

Spoilers!! under the cut.

I’ve been seeing a lot of remarks, especially in post-Ragnarok hug fic, suggesting that Thor thought Loki was dead after Surtur destroyed Asgard. When I watched it the first time, I was confused and seriously bothered about why Thor didn’t wait to see whether Loki had gotten out before he, Valkyrie, and Hulk jumped onto the big ship. Before Hulk shows up again after fighting Fenris, Thor and Valkyrie are talking like they think this was a suicide mission: “At least our people have gotten to safety.” But when Loki takes the little ship to go dunk Surtur’s crown in the Eternal Flame, he doesn’t look or sound like he thinks he’s going on a suicide mission.

Probably more tellingly, the way they play the “I’m here” moment, it definitely seems like Thor is testing whether Loki is an illusion, not a hallucination. I mean, a hallucination might still have seemed to catch the bottle stopper – though maybe Thor would have heard the clunk of it hitting the door? But as a follow-up to earlier moments, it only makes sense if he’s testing to see whether it’s an illusion; and Thor’s reaction of relief is definitely more appropriate to “Loki didn’t fuck off by himself” than “Loki isn’t dead.” So I’m guessing we’re supposed to think that Thor was trusting Loki’s strong self-preservation instincts and assumed that Loki got out in the little ship (the Commodore?) and just went off somewhere to make his fortune on some other planet. He’s pleasantly surprised that Loki came back to help him take responsibility for the homeless Asgardian people, not that he survived.

Unfortunately, that was not made very clear in the movie, and I was hearing other people around me asking “What happened to Loki?” It would have been really disturbing that Thor didn’t seem to be worried unless he was just very confident that Loki would find a way out but wasn’t expecting him to come back for other reasons.

thisdorkyblogthing:

@mydarlingsarah
replied to your post “@rynfinity replied to your post “@mydarlingsarah
replied to your…”

I was more concerned that they were turning Thor into his character from Ghostbusters.

oh no, he’s definitely not like that in it. he’s more like ‘cocky, arrogant prince from Thor 1, but he’s Seen Shit and has 0 Fucks To Give Now’

I was seriously concerned about that too, @rynfinity. You’ll be happy to know that the stupid line in one of the trailers (straight from that terrifying “Thor: Civil War” video) about Thor having more brains because he has more muscles was NOT in the movie. This Thor has a functioning brain in his cranium, where it’s supposed to be.

thorkizilla:

Thor (2011) + Thor: Ragnarok (2017):

Thor: There won’t be a kingdom to protect if you’re afraid to act! The Jotuns must learn to fear me, just as they once feared you!
Odin: That’s pride and vanity talking, not leadership. You’ve forgotten everything I taught you about a warrior’s patience.
Thor: While you wait, and be patient, the Nine Realms laugh at us. The old ways are done! You’d stand giving speeches while Asgard falls!
Odin: You are a vain, greedy, cruel boy!
Thor:  And you are an old man and a fool!
Odin: Yes, I was a fool to think you were ready. Thor Odinson, you have betrayed the express command of your king. Through your arrogance and stupidity, you have opened these peaceful realms and innocent lives to the horror and desolation of war! You are unworthy of these realms! You’re unworthy of your title! You are unworthy of the loved ones you have betrayed. I now take from you your power! In the name of my father and his father before, I, Odin Allfather, cast you out!

WHOEVER HOLDS THIS HAMMER, IF HE BE WORTHY, SHALL POSSESS THE HAMMER OF THOR.

Hela’s use of Mjolnir once upon a time lends a whole new context to what Thor’s arc over his movies + the Avengers movies already was–his story is one of an immensely powerful god who must either learn to wield it with care towards others or be lost to evil and violence and cruelty, not only himself but everyone else around him.  It lends an entirely new context to Odin’s reaction to Thor’s fight on Jotunheim and his words–words that must have been so much an echo of what Hela may have said once upon a time.

The realms must learn to fear her, just like her father.  That he only sits there now and is a fool not to bring the other Realms under the hell of Asgard.  And, just as he did with such a heavy heart, he had to cast her out, her violence and cruelty and vanity too much to bear.

Then again he must do the same with Thor.

Where Thor is different (and we do not know how many chances Odin gave Hela, though, she would not have wanted them or used them) is that he finds the strength to look around him when he’s pulled up short.  That he becomes worthy of the hammer, that he becomes the great man and great king that his people need him to be.

He rules without Mjolnir, because his power is not sourced to it, his power comes from the same place Hela’s does, it comes from within himself and his people, it’s on the same level as hears.  Thor is the redemption of Odin’s line, Thor is the inverse image of Hela and she of him.  Where her greed and cruelty only grew, his was erased and nobility grew in its place instead.

I love the ending of Thor: Ragnarok, that Thor may not want the throne, but it only makes him all the more suited to it.  That it’s the next step on the journey his story has taken over the course of these movies, that his people need him and he will sacrifice what needs to be, in order to lead them.  Not because he wants power or fame.  But because it’s right.  It’s finally right.

Thor doesn’t need Mjolnir to show that he is worthy in and of himself.  It was a beautiful weapon, it was more akin to a friend for all the years he had it with him. But it was still ultimately a weapon and Thor does not need it to remind himself to be a good man or a good ruler.  He just simply is.

I love how Loki is officially no longer the shittiest Odinkid. And, frankly, has one of the lower body-counts in the family now. XD

thorkizilla:

I’M LAUGHING BECAUSE IT’S TRUE.

Loki, I love you, boo, but you’re never going to be the worst anymore, sorry big sis has that covered.

I love this on a LOL level but I also love it in the sense that, while Loki will still have issues, it will give both him and Thor breathing room to realize things are not as bad as they could be.  Loki doesn’t have to feel like he has to live up to being this monster he’s painted up as how he thinks his family sees him, he can settle more into a middle of the road trickster type.

Thor has dealt with so much shit by this point, has lost so much and seen so much violence and evil from others, can look at Loki and not see him as the worst kind of betrayal ever, either.  He’s always wanted to believe in Loki, wishes he could trust him, but he’s come to a point where he recognizes who he himself has grown into, that he’s grown up a lot, he’s grown into more than he used to be, and if Loki comes along, Thor will be so glad to have him there, but if not, he knows that he has the strength to carry on.

Loki can realize, hey, he’s not the only one in a shitty situation, that it sucks when someone who should be your sibling just wrecks everything because they’re being an asshole, that he can understand much more of what Thor’s been through and what he’s going through.  That he wasn’t the only one who was lied to–yes, it gives Thor new understanding, but it also gives Loki new understanding, that he’s not the only one who’s been hurt.

I love it because they can always think of Hela and go, yeah, okay, we have our problems, but at least we’re not The Actual Worst Shittiest Odinkid as dark humor, but also that, yeah, it gives them both perspective that lets them grow. And that’s why I love the ending of the movie–maybe it’ll stick, maybe it won’t, but I wouldn’t have thought it possible with the road they were on before and yet!  Now I do.

I love it because, hey, don’t be a rerun of Hela, Loki.

Be something different, be something more.