Asgard is not a place, it’s a people. Oops now it’s just you Thor. And the random Asgardians that pop up on SHIELD maybe…? ��
Two-step Ragnarok: first the place gets destroyed, then the people get destroyed.
LOL, Asgard is now Thor, Brunnhilde (evidence suggests she’ll survive), maybe Loki (but not for long), and that one vaguely lecherous professor chillin’ in Seville.
And possibly also Sif. (Thanks for the reminder, @foundlingmother.)
Asgard is not a place, it’s a people. Oops now it’s just you Thor. And the random Asgardians that pop up on SHIELD maybe…? ��
Two-step Ragnarok: first the place gets destroyed, then the people get destroyed.
LOL, Asgard is now Thor, Brunnhilde (evidence suggests she’ll survive), maybe Loki (but not for long), and that one vaguely lecherous professor chillin’ in Seville.
The version of Thor Ragnarok I really want is where Ragnarok happens and then Odin dies, so Hela comes out of her prison like “can’t wait to recharge my energy on Asgard where the fuck is asgard”, so instead of being the villain of the movie, she’s at best minor antagonist impotently trying to summon enough magic to do any cool shit while Thor forcibly tries sibling bonding because he’s not letting another sibling go down a dark path
“I already went down a dark path, you idiot, I was your father’s executioner, I killed millions”
“yeah but like a darker path. you know. like a recently dark path.”
“you know our new sibling’s mass murder does put my whole “““conquer earth”“““ thing in context don’t you think”
“shut up loki”
“yeah shut up loki you didn’t even succeed”
“hela you know that’s not why we’re mad about loki’s conquering scheme”
“weak lil mischief bro couldn’t even conquer midgard, a planet asgard like already conquered a billion years ago”
“don’t pick on our little brother”
“loki is a punk ass book jockey and I wish I was back in prison”
I think the biggest problem I have with Thor’s characterization in Ragnarok is that Thor’s not a comedian, and a Thor movie shouldn’t be a comedy. Thor can be funny, and Thor movies can have funny moments, but the core shouldn’t be comedy. That’s more mainstream entertaining (I admit, I find Ragnarok amusing/entertaining), but it’s not Thor. It never has been. Thor has always been deeply emotional, (over)dramatic, and reverent. That’s why it pisses me off to see people say that Ragnarok is what Thor movies always should have been, and the characterization is the best it’s ever been. No. This isn’t Thor. Those characters aren’t Thor or Loki, they’re the comedic simplification of those characters.
This seems right. Guardians of the Galaxy should be funny (and it is); you can get some pathos out of Star-Lord’s and Rocket’s stories (and they do), but they basically are comedians – it’s part of their character. If Thor is funny in his movies, either Thor shouldn’t be in on the joke – the way Thor 1 gets humor out of his confusion and awkwardness without resorting to ridicule – or it should be dignified and deadpan, the way Thor is in TDW (“Space is fine,” hanging the hammer on the coat rack) and Age of Ultron (“You’re all not worthy”; stepping on the Lego and then nudging it out of the way; his interactions with Vision; “as long as there is life in my breast, I am… running out of things to say”; “With the exception of this one [Tony], there’s nothing that can’t be explained”). The bickering with Loki in TDW is also good Thor humor, because we see him as a typical brother, but it never breaks character. Oh yeah, and the bilgesnipe exchange with Coulson in The Avengers.
All of this is subtle humor. In fact, I got the most examples out of AOU, probably because clever, subtle humor is Joss Whedon’s thing; he’s very practiced at making old, serious, generally dignified people funny in an in-character way (see: Rupert Giles, Angel, Shepherd Book; Spike and Wesley are less dignified, but vaguely in the same category). I’m not sure exactly which added scenes in TDW he wrote (other than the bro-boat and the shapeshifting); I don’t think he wrote the bickering in the spaceship, but he might have (in case they expanded that scene in reshoots). It’s hard to make Thor funny, so you need a writer with a specific sensibility and skill set. Taika Waititi (and Eric Pearson, however much of his script actually survived) does not have that sensibility; his way of making ancient vampires funny in What We Do in the Shadows was to deprive them of dignity. So of course we should expect that his way of making Thor and Loki funny was to deprive them of dignity.
I just stumbled on this thread (I think it’s even longer on @foundlingmother ‘s page?) and just wanted to say thank you both because after talking to each of you individually then reading this, I feel like I have a much better read on the whole situation (in context of Thor 3 both alone and in light of the previous films.) I feel more comfortable acknowledging inconsistent/bad writing instead of trying to give too much credit where it isn’t due.
The thing that was esp. tripping me up was reconciling Thor’s behaviour (because in some ways it’s consistent with his earlier issues and in other ways it seems pretty OOC, which was throwing me off.) Thanks for delving into the inherent issues and then addressing how/why Ragnarok could have tackled them differently via Thor’s characterization in particular (but failed to.) We were given a facade of reconciliation and its nice to pull back the curtain and figure out why it wasn’t really that.
Heh, @seidrade, it sounds like you went through the same process as I did, only a few months later. In one respect, I’m sorry; it’s disappointing to realize that the conclusion to a series that means a lot to you is just bad and you can’t salvage it. But on the other hand, I know how frustrating it is to be dissatisfied with something but not quite able to pinpoint why, so you’re welcome for helping with that.
It’s reassuring to know that saying variations on the same thing over and over again can actually help someone break through a difficulty. I kind of feel like one of those weirdos (or hobo!Odin) who stands on a street corner preaching repentance; most of the people who see it will probably just be indifferent, annoyed, or offended, but if I can reach one person it feels like it’s worth it. Or maybe it’s like teaching history of philosophy to undergrads… you keep trying different ways to explain something and it can be frustrating and dispiriting but you see a lightbulb go on in one student’s head and it’s all worthwhile.
Loki is the Philosopher King 