Hey, so like…

lokiloveforever:

seiramili7:

timetravellingshinigami:

nikkoliferous:

asgardiankingofmischief:

nikkoliferous:

Does anyone want to talk about how ridiculous it is that Valkyrie, of all people, shames Loki for not caring about doing the right thing?

Loki: I don’t mean to impose…
(Valkyrie throws a bottle at him because violence is only bad if The Villain™ does it)
Loki: The Grandmaster has a great many ships. I may even have stolen the access codes to his security system.
Valkyrie: And suddenly you’re overcome with an urge to do the right thing?

You know… the same woman who spent half this movie also avoiding Thor’s attempts to gain her aid? The one who only decided to help out about five minutes prior to this scene? The one who arguably never would have wound up helping had Loki not invaded her memories, thus jolting her out of complacency? That Valkyrie?

Yeah, and considering her history in enslaving people for the Grandmaster runs about 1000 or so years? Maybe more, I can’t recall, she doesn’t really have the moral high ground.

In fact, Loki attempting to capture Thor and surrender him to the Grandmaster is more in line with something that Valkyrie would likely pursue (considering her time in Sakaar). Maybe they should have made her more difficult to convince.

Her comment/question is rather out of place also and would have to assume that she’s familiar with Loki to the level that Thor or Hulk (cause of NY) are.

I can only assume she said it in retaliation to what Loki did with her mind, but, in my opinion, she probably would have said something else.

Or they could have validated that she wasn’t necessarily trustworthy too.

It just felt like more of Taika’s lazy story-telling to me, as opposed to Valkyrie getting back at him for the whole ‘invading my mind’ thing. (But hey, don’t invade people’s brains, kids. It’s quite rude). I personally viewed it more as like, “hey, we haven’t reminded people that Loki’s a bad egg in the last 3 minutes or so; better let someone have a dig at his loose morals” sort of BS that is honestly just rampant in Thor: Ragnarok.

Like, I know Ragnarok critics get labelled conspiracy theorists for thinking (or at least speaking as though) Taika just had it out for Loki and wanted to degrade him as much as possible. And I get it, that sounds objectively insane. But just, looking at the narrative of the film itself, it’s… hard not to get that impression? And there’s really no other indicator in that movie–unless I’m forgetting something–that anyone on Sakaar (not including Thor and Bruce, obviously) has a clue who Loki really is. I guess it’s possible that they do, but there’s no evidence that that’s the case. More show & tell problems in this film.

I actually do want to address the ‘betraying Thor for money’ thing, though. Because I see a lot of people complaining that it’s completely out of character for Loki to do so for the money, and I actually have a different take on it. We all know Loki is rarely able to just be honest about what’s going on in his head. That’s essentially what the entire conflict between him and Thor has been fueled by for all this time, really. So I kind of headcanon that Loki might have told Thor that it was for the money, but I personally believe that in reality, it was actually Loki’s last-ditch effort to save his brother. Even as strong as he and Thor both are, individually and together, he did not believe Hela was an enemy that they could defeat (which is technically true)–especially now that she’s all cozy on Asgard, where she’ll be even stronger than when they first met her. Loki already failed once to talk Thor into staying on Sakaar of his own free will; I think betraying him was Loki’s way of trying to keep him safe from Hela by any means necessary.

I also think that deceptiveness can extend to his fight with Valkyrie too. A lot of Loki fans complain about her being able to take him captive so easily, but I choose to believe he lost to her intentionally. Easy ticket to finding his brother. He is the trickster god. Why are we suddenly taking him at face value all the time?

Admittedly, when it comes to Thor: Ragnarok, it’s super hard to decide when Loki is acting out of character because he’s running a scheme and when he’s doing it because of bad writing.

People actually call Loki stans (the true Loki stans) and people who don’t like Ragnarok as idiots just ‘cause we analyzed the movie from start to finish. Most of these people who insult us are new to the fandom and only saw Ragnarok. And even if they saw the other Thor movies they don’t remember it or for some reason they don’t like it. They just here for the jokes and, me, who is someone who’s here for depth of character, good storytelling and just pure emotion cannot deal with people like that.

Valkyrie is a good character but i wish people wouldn’t forget that she has done more wrong than Loki. She’s captured slaves for the Grandmaster for centuries. But of course she’s a hero like Thor and can do no wrong. Also people keep forgetting that the Grandmaster himself is a despot and a tyrant who has no mercy or respect for life. But you know he talks funny and so its all okay.

You know… the same woman who spent half this movie also avoiding Thor’s attempts to gain her aid? The one who only decided to help out about five minutes prior to this scene? The one who arguably never would have wound up helping had Loki not invaded her memories, thus jolting her out of complacency? That Valkyrie?

In fact, Valkyrie’s own words about “

suddenly you’re overcome with an urge to do the right thing?

“ itself applies accurately to what Valkyrie was doing exactly at that time.

And to be honest, Valkyrie is a hypocrite. Considering about her own deeds that sold many non-guilty people into slavery and causing those people’s deaths for thousands years, and the fact that she knows almost nothing about Loki himself, she has absolutely no right to judge Loki and then acts like she has never done anything wrong in her life, ever.

Valkyrie is a good character but i wish people wouldn’t forget that she has done more wrong than Loki. She’s captured slaves for the Grandmaster for centuries. But of course she’s a hero like Thor and can do no wrong. Also people keep forgetting that the Grandmaster himself is a despot and a tyrant who has no mercy or respect for life. But you know he talks funny and so its all 🆗.

People often forget about her actions because the narrative never call it. The narrative of Ragnarok want to condemn Loki only out of other characters and exaggerating his “evilness” into stereotype and caricature-like so people start to regard him as only “a mere background character who is just an useless twink who have no dignity and just nothing but a pest to Thor the Perfect ‘Hero’ with no absolute importance other than being fan-service”. That’s why they’re so many double standards in Ragnarok especially regarding Loki.

@lucianalight @juliabohemian @welle-nijordottir

Waititi did have it in for Loki, he admitted it. He said Loki’s treatment and humiliation was “payback” for overshadowing the other movies. Everything, from that stupid play, to the deleted port o potty scene, to being chained up and having glass bottles thrown at his head, to Thor’s triumphant obedience disc scene was all a reflection of exactly how Waititi feels about Loki. “Blah, blah, blah, shut up, space orphan” “Loki tries so hard to be this tortured, artistic, space orphan”. Waititi’s not subtle about it. He thinks all the little Loki lovers are idiots. He meant out to “respectfully” disrespect the other movies, and extend a middle finger to those of us whose favorite character wasn’t Thor. It’s funny how, in that scene where Loki is sitting there chained up, nobody there, not Thor, not Bruce or Valkyrie, have any right to stand there and judge Loki. Valkyrie was just as much a “lackey” of the Grandmaster, if not moreso, because she worked for him and enslaved people for him for a long, long, time. She knew about the orgy ship too, and was obviously in high favor with the grandmaster. But yet in that scene, suddenly Thor, Bruce and Valkyrie are the spotless heroes with the right to look down their noses at Loki? No.

I’m so baffled by his use of “space orphan” as an insult. Shouldn’t that make Loki *more* sympathetic? I mean, much of the plot of “Pirates of Penzance” turns on the fact that being an orphan makes people more sympathetic to you. What’s Waititi’s problem?

philosopherking1887:

foundlingmother replied to your post “Some Nietzsche quotes that express my thoughts on The Tumblr Consensus”

My favorite is when they offer no arguments for what they believe, just respond to yours with, “If you believe that, you’re wrong.” I’ve seen this a lot when I call the obedience disk a torture device. I say it’s used on slaves. I say that it’s clearly shown to be painful for Thor and Loki. I say it makes it impossible for Loki to move (and even if he wasn’t in pain, your muscles spasming for an indeterminate amount of time would be fucking horrible).

I point to the intention in the script in extreme cases. Yet still I am wrong. I am delusional. And I’m one of those people who don’t care if people want to think of it as not that bad, because I get the appeal of faith, but I get very irritated when my reasoning is dismissed outright.

Flat, un-argued-for denial – effectively, the playground whine of “nuh-uh” – is always fun, but even better is when they blow past both counterargument and contradiction and go straight for accusations and insults. These tend to come in two flavors:

1. “You’re just a stupid straight girl who’s wet for Whedon’s psychopathic bad boy Tom Hiddleston in leather and wants him to dominate you like 50 Shades of Grey.” Often comes with a side of “You’re too homophobic for a queer character you can’t fetishize through slash,” ignoring the facts that a) Ragnarok never explicitly confirms that Loki is queer; b) the gay relationship that it strongly implies is a fucked-up exploitative sugar daddy arrangement with a sadistic, casually murderous slavemaster; and c) at the same time that it plays up Loki’s gay coding, it also presents him as shallow, narcissistic, stupid, and ineffectual. Real great queer representation, that. Not to mention that the “fetishizing through slash” has, if anything, ramped up post-Ragnarok (both Thorki and Frostmaster).

2. “You must just be a racist who hates that people of color are succeeding if you don’t worship Taika Waititi and everything he says, does, and makes.” There’s really no good way to rebut this one, because once you’ve been accused of racism on Tumblr there’s always a presumption of guilt. You say you loved Black Panther? Well, you must be racist against Maori/Polynesian/indigenous people. You really liked Moana? That’s like saying “Some of my best friends are [fill in the racial group].” You liked What We Do in the Shadows but thought that irreverent tone and the disrespect for the main characters was inappropriate for a Thor movie? You’re just mad because a POC wasn’t showing proper respect for white male characters and you can’t stand that characters of color (Valkyrie and Heimdall) were more awesome than the white characters. You liked Valkyrie and Heimdall in Ragnarok but that’s not enough to outweigh the outrageous retcon of Thor and Loki, the main characters you’ve been invested in for 3-4 movies? Why do you think white characters are so much more important than characters of color?

The notes on this post are showing 3 reblogs that I can’t look at when I click; it doesn’t even show the URLs that reblogged (if they exist). Is this just a weird Tumblr malfunction, or are people who have blocked me reblogging my shit again? If the latter, could some kind soul tell me who they are so that I can block them back? (Which is hard when you can’t search for someone’s URL… oh, the joys of being outspoken with unpopular opinions.)

foundlingmother replied to your post “Some Nietzsche quotes that express my thoughts on The Tumblr Consensus”

My favorite is when they offer no arguments for what they believe, just respond to yours with, “If you believe that, you’re wrong.” I’ve seen this a lot when I call the obedience disk a torture device. I say it’s used on slaves. I say that it’s clearly shown to be painful for Thor and Loki. I say it makes it impossible for Loki to move (and even if he wasn’t in pain, your muscles spasming for an indeterminate amount of time would be fucking horrible).

I point to the intention in the script in extreme cases. Yet still I am wrong. I am delusional. And I’m one of those people who don’t care if people want to think of it as not that bad, because I get the appeal of faith, but I get very irritated when my reasoning is dismissed outright.

Flat, un-argued-for denial – effectively, the playground whine of “nuh-uh” – is always fun, but even better is when they blow past both counterargument and contradiction and go straight for accusations and insults. These tend to come in two flavors:

1. “You’re just a stupid straight girl who’s wet for Whedon’s psychopathic bad boy Tom Hiddleston in leather and wants him to dominate you like 50 Shades of Grey.” Often comes with a side of “You’re too homophobic for a queer character you can’t fetishize through slash,” ignoring the facts that a) Ragnarok never explicitly confirms that Loki is queer; b) the gay relationship that it strongly implies is a fucked-up exploitative sugar daddy arrangement with a sadistic, casually murderous slavemaster; and c) at the same time that it plays up Loki’s gay coding, it also presents him as shallow, narcissistic, stupid, and ineffectual. Real great queer representation, that. Not to mention that the “fetishizing through slash” has, if anything, ramped up post-Ragnarok (both Thorki and Frostmaster).

2. “You must just be a racist who hates that people of color are succeeding if you don’t worship Taika Waititi and everything he says, does, and makes.” There’s really no good way to rebut this one, because once you’ve been accused of racism on Tumblr there’s always a presumption of guilt. You say you loved Black Panther? Well, you must be racist against Maori/Polynesian/indigenous people. You really liked Moana? That’s like saying “Some of my best friends are [fill in the racial group].” You liked What We Do in the Shadows but thought that irreverent tone and the disrespect for the main characters was inappropriate for a Thor movie? You’re just mad because a POC wasn’t showing proper respect for white male characters and you can’t stand that characters of color (Valkyrie and Heimdall) were more awesome than the white characters. You liked Valkyrie and Heimdall in Ragnarok but that’s not enough to outweigh the outrageous retcon of Thor and Loki, the main characters you’ve been invested in for 3-4 movies? Why do you think white characters are so much more important than characters of color?

yume-no-fantasy:

lucianalight:

rewritefate:

a-p-day-in-hell:

rewritefate:

a-p-day-in-hell:

brolinjosh:

Thor’s last words to Loki vs. Loki’s last words to Thor

Even tho Loki does care about Thor even if he has an hard time admitting it, he’s still the worst brother tbh. He betrayed Thor like an hundred times over, and Thanos attacking the ship and killing half of the asgardians is entirely his fault. Thor saying this was means to be a funny scene but if we want to read more into it, he was refferring to the fact that Loki stole the tesseract while they were in the middle of a huge battle and put a huge target on the asgardian ship. In the end, Loki choose the right side but it doesn’t mean everything he did before is forgotten and if he had came out of it alive,Thor would have totally punched him in the face and then he would have hugged him

Sigh…There are so many wrong things in your statement, I’m gonna put a little bit of my thought.

“

He betrayed Thor like an hundred times over”

Loki didn’t betray Thor “a hundred times over” , he is pretty loyal to Thor for a century, accompany Thor when Thor is still he is an arrogant war-monger.

“

Even tho Loki does care about Thor even if he has an hard time admitting it, he’s still the worst brother tbh.”

Are you gonna put aside all wrong doings Thor does to Loki like this one :

And then just straight out labeling Loki as “the worst brother”?

Yeah Thor used to be a prick but he grew out of it and being arrogant is nothing compared to what Loki has done. I love Loki, I really do but from Thor’s point of view, he’s been betrayed multiple times by him. You’re using a gif of one of his worst betreyal, pushing Thor on this stupid mission knowing it would end badly and could lead to a war so Thor wouldn’t be king. Sure, it’s a good thing Thor didn’t became king then bc he was immature but Loki just wanted the throne for himself, he didn’t care for the well being of Asgard. And then he goes to earth and tell Thor his father is dead, how fucked up is that? And then he try to kill Thor when he’s mortal. Still, after all that, Thor try to save Loki from falling and is heartbroken over his death.

Then New York happen, Loki has been tortured yeah but he doesn’t mind killing hundred of people that he knows his brother is protecting, he actually enjoy that and he stab Thor at the end.

Loki help Thor in the dark world but for his own revenge over his mother’s death and then, he still pretend to be dead so he can have the throne for himself, not caring as his brother, once again, cry over his death. The only good thing he does is saving Jane.

Thor ragnarok show us more of their wonderful relationship as children, funny but a little fucked up on loki’s part. Thor learn that Loki left Odin on earth which led to his death away from his people and the liberation of Hela. He doesn’t do anything to keep Thor from becoming a slave for the great master and try to betray him again when they leave but Thor is used to it by then and his plan doesn’t work. Okay, at the end, he makes the right call bc sometimes, he can be good and help save the asgardians but he can’t help taking the tesseract with him despite everything happening at the moment.

And it all lead it to infinity war which I already explained. But yeah, you’re right, Thor used to be a little arrogant before and sometimes though he was above his brother, which he technically was at this moment as he was heir to the throne and Loki was under his orders. But like I said, Thor grew out of his arrogant phase, thanks to loki’s “help” but Loki has always considered himself superior to Thor and I’m not sure he ever stopped, no matter how much he actually love his brother.

So yeah, Loki is the worst brother and anyone would have given up on him a long time ago but Thor is just that good.

“

Yeah Thor used to be a prick but he grew out of it and being arrogant is nothing compared to what Loki has done”

Thor has killed over 3000 people, while being a war-monger he is, he is no better than Loki himself. It’s just the way Thor killing those people is so fit with the Asgardian culture, not with a tricks or magic. Don’t try to justify Thor actions in the past with “he used to be a prick”.

“

pushing Thor on this stupid mission knowing it would end badly and could lead to a war so Thor wouldn’t be king

“

If you look more detail, Loki mission is to showing Thor arrogant and reckless side in front of Odin to prevent Thor from getting the throne because Thor at that time wasn’t fit. Too reckless, his arrogant side will cause many conflicts. What Loki doing to Thor in Thor (2011) is just like what Thor doing to Hela in Thor Ragnarok, they both prevented their sibling from getting the throne because in their eyes, their sibling is not fit enough.

“ You’re using a gif of one of his worst betreyal”

The scene where Thor told Loki to “Know his place” is Thor response to Loki advice to not attack those Frost Giant. Loki kindly asked Thor “Thor, please stop. Look around you, we are outnumbered”, and you know what Thor response “Know your place brother”, he straight out dismiss Loki, treating as Loki opinion didn’t matter, and the sad things is Loki didn’t even reply back, as if Thor dismiss him is just their usual habit. This scene actually implying to Thor and Loki dysfunctional relationship for 1000 years with Thor treating Loki as the inferior, along with Warrior Three and Sif.

“

he actually enjoy that and he stab Thor at the end.”

No, he didn’t. Right after Loki stabbed Thor, there is a tears in his eyes. He is not enjoying to stab Thor.

“

he still pretend to be dead so he can have the throne for himself”

Loki never pretended to be dead, he is actually getting badly injured saving Thor from Kurse, Kevin Feige and Tom Hiddleston already confirmed that in the interview. It’s just that the fate decided that Loki still survives, and then he decided to get revenge on Odin by taking the throne , it has nothing to do with Thor.

“

not caring as his brother, once again, cry over his death

“

The reason why Loki didn’t tell Thor why he is still alive because Thor promised him to return Loki back to the cell. “And afterward, this cell”- Thor promised Loki he would return Loki to his cell after using Loki help. Thor cries for Loki when he dies in the dark world but did Thor ever bother to bring and bury Loki body properly? No right? Shouldn’t Thor at least bring his body back to Asgard?

“

Thor ragnarok show us more of their wonderful relationship as children, funny but a little fucked up on loki’s part.

“

The original canon of Thor and Loki childhood (confirmed by Kevin Feige and Kenneth Branagh” is Loki is the looked down kid, he looked up to Thor, he respected Thor, while Thor is the golden child, and he treated his brother with a superior big brother mindset. However, Chris Hemsworth and Taika Watiti want to change Loki and Thor childhood, with Thor being the bullied kid and Loki is the bully. However that’s not the case since in Thor 1, we viewer already showed Thor and Loki childhood. Loki was the quiet one, and Thor was an aggressive child, “I will hunt all the monster down and slay them all !!”. Thor in the original canon is “more fucked up”

“

He doesn’t do anything to keep Thor from becoming a slave for the great master

“

Did you see the scene where Loki want to grieve together for Odin death with Thor? Loki did tried to get Thor to work together to get off from that place by overthrowing the Grandmaster first. And what is Thor response to him? No response, and then Thor just straight up accusing Loki “You faked your own death”.

“

try to betray him again when they leave but Thor is used to it by then and his plan doesn’t work

“

Loki only try to betray Thor after Thor straight up shading him in the elevator with “maybe there is still good in you” line, and he did it to keep Thor safe from Hela if you actually noticed. Thor clearly use reverse-psychology on Loki in that elevator scene so he can use Loki help later.

“

But like I said, Thor grew out of his arrogant phase, thanks to loki’s “help” but Loki has always considered himself superior to Thor

“

Loki considered himself as inferior to Thor, read all Thor novel. Thor treated him as inferior for a century and it’s effect Loki psychology. Unconsciously Loki considered himself as the inferior one and the reason why he want to fight Thor in Thor 1 and Avenger is to prove himself. You watch too much Thor ragnarok.

“

So yeah, Loki is the worst brother and anyone would have given up on him a long time ago but Thor is just that good.

“

And now you just straight up labeling Loki as the worst brother, and clearly ignoring Thor wrong doing to Loki (with an excuse like “Thor is only a little bit arrogant”. I suggest you, don’t have a black and white perspective, Thor treatment to Loki is just as bad as Loki treatment to Thor. Thor treated Loki as inferior and always dismiss Loki feeling, even in Ragnarok and Infinity War. Did Thor even try to understand Loki perspective? He just straight out labeling Loki, just like you did.

@juliabohemian @shine-of-asgard @lokiloveforever @edge-of-silvermoon @whitedaydream @lucianalight @seiramili7 @yume-no-fantasy @nooo-body

@formysnowflake

Thanks for the tag @rewritefate and @seiramili7 ( in this thread) ! I can’t believe what I just read! You guys covered everything. I just add a few things.

“Even tho Loki does care about Thor even if he has an hard time admitting it, he’s still the worst brother tbh.”

Loki is the one who ever verbally stated that he loves Thor, twice I might add and got “Thank you” as answer! He is the one that tolerated a life time of being treated as inferior and he still loves Thor to the point that he’s ready to sacrifice his life not only for Thor(twice!) but also for Thor’s girlfriend(twice!) to prevent his brother from getting hurt. And he is the worst brother?!?!

“He betrayed Thor like an hundred times over”

No he only betrayed Thor in Thor 1. The other villainous things he did has nothing to do with Thor personally. His betrayal in TR doesn’t make sense because he knew there was a revolution going on and GM would no longer be in charge. So getting his favor was pointless. It only make sense if Loki was upset of Thor’s speech or wanted to prevent him from getting himself killed by Hela. Which makes it understandable.

“Thanos attacking the ship and killing half of the asgardians is entirely his fault.”

No it’s not. Loki’s choice to taking the Tesseract was completely logical. Thanos would find them with or without the Tesseract and having a bargaining chip is ultimately better than having none.

“Yeah Thor used to be a prick but he grew out of it and being arrogant is nothing compared to what Loki has done.”

He was more than just an arrogant person. He was the textbook narcissistic golden child before his banishment and the resulting abuse from this kind of personality will have a toll on anyone. And besides Loki was never in his right mind when he did all those horrible things.

“You’re using a gif of one of his worst betreyal, pushing Thor on this
stupid mission knowing it would end badly and could lead to a war so
Thor wouldn’t be king.”

“Loki’s worst betrayal”?! He did a service to their kingdom by preventing Thor from becoming the king! “Pushing Thor on this stupid mission”!? Oh my God! It’s not Loki’s fault that all Thor needed was an agreement with his opinion and feeling thrilled to have a chance in showing that he can be a better king than Odin! Loki didn’t push him to do anything!
“knowing it would end badly and could lead to a war so
Thor wouldn’t be king.” Did you miss the part when he told a guard to inform Odin so he prevent Thor from his stupid mission and getting them all killed

in the process? And the guard didn’t care enough to do it in time? Or the part that Heimdall let them go to Jotunheim despite the fact that it was forbidden. Or the part that Loki screamed that he never wanted the throne, only to be Thor’s equal? And all he attempted to do was prove himself worthy to Odin?

“Then New York happen, Loki has been tortured yeah but he doesn’t mind
killing hundred of people that he knows his brother is protecting, he
actually enjoy that and he stab Thor at the end.”

He doesn’t mind killing hundred of people? He enjoy that? I think you once again miss the part when he looked with horror to the destruction in the Avengers and told Thor with regret in his voice that it was too late to stop it. And you definitely miss the part when he cried while he stabbed Thor. Does all this seems like enjoyment to you? Also did you forget the part where Thor admitted killing thousands of people? Or the part where he was killing Jotuns all the while grinning and was excited because of it?

“he still pretend to be dead so he can have the throne for himself, not caring as his brother, once again, cry over his death.”

Yeah, because offering the throne to Thor means he wanted it for himself. It’s not Loki’s fault that Thor declined it! Oh my God!

“Thor learn that Loki left Odin on earth which led to his death away from his people and the liberation of Hela.”

No, Odin’s death and Hela’s libration wasn’t Loki’s fault! God!!!

“Loki has always considered himself superior to Thor and I’m not sure he
ever stopped, no matter how much he actually love his brother.”

How can someone miss all the signs!? It was always Thor who saw himself superior. It was always Loki who saw himself as inferior to Thor and wanted to prove himself equal. It’s the core of his problems!!!

Thanks for the tag @rewritefate and @seiramili7 🙂 You guys and @lucianalight have already said a lot of what I want to say. I’ll just add some of my reactions to this.

Firstly: SIGH.

“He betrayed Thor like a hundred times over”<-
See, this is what happens when you get brainwashed by Gagnarok. You think
that because you believe the “I trust you, you betray me, round and
round in circles we go” nonsense that Gagnarok!Thor said, that’s it.

“Thanos attacking the ship and killing half of the asgardians is
entirely his fault”<-So it’s Loki’s fault, not Thanos’?

“Thor saying this was
means to be a funny scene”<- You’re right about this. When I went to
watch IW I was feeling so disappointed when Thor said to Loki “you really are
the worst brother”, but most of the other audience seemed to find it funny. So
yes, it was meant to be funny and also a clear reference to what Thor said to
Loki before: “maybe you’re not so bad after all”, which happens to be the only positive
affirmation Thor gave Loki in Gagnarok and is now negated just because he was
trying to be funny.

(Noteworthy fact: Thor was originally supposed to be a more serious
character in IW. But CH voiced concerns after Gagnarok portrayed the
character’s funnier side, apparently because he was “just so protective of what he built
with Taika” (his own words). That was why the IW writers Christopher Markus and
Stephen McFeely turned to TW for input, then rewrote Thor’s character and his
storyline. With this I think we can all make an educated guess as to how
that “worst brother” line came about.)

“Loki just wanted the
throne for himself, he didn’t care for the well being of Asgard.” <- First
of all I strongly suggest you watch the first Thor film again. Anyway, here are
a few quotes from Loki:

“That was just a bit
of fun, really. To ruin my brother’s big day, and to protect the realm from his idiotic rule for a while longer.”

“I love Thor more
dearly than any of you, but you know what he is. He’s arrogant, he’s reckless,
he’s dangerous! You saw how he was today. Is that what Asgard needs from its
King?”

“I never wanted the
throne, I only ever wanted to be your equal!”

“Then New York happen,
Loki has been tortured yeah but he doesn’t mind killing hundred of people that
he knows his brother is protecting, he actually enjoy that and he stab Thor at
the end.”<- I think you should rewatch the first Avengers film
too. Anyway here’s a screencap for your reference:

“Loki help Thor in the
dark world but for his own revenge over his mother’s death and then, he still
pretend to be dead so he can have the throne for himself, not caring as his
brother, once again, cry over his death. The only good thing he does is saving
Jane.” <- Some more quotes:

Tom: Loki’s death on Svartalfheim was written as
a death, and Chris and I played that scene for real. That was meant to be sort
of that he redeemed himself. He helped save his brother and helped save Jane
Foster, but he, in the process, sacrificed himself.

Feige: He is able to spin events, without ever
really lying to his brother, without ever actually betraying his brother, into
what is always wanted, which is sitting on the throne and saving his brother. That
last scene needed to work for people watching the movie for the first time, who
believed that it’s Odin talking to Thor, and then the surprise, but it also
needs to work a second and third time. Why is Odin saying those things? Why is
Loki saying those things to Thor? They’re very nice things, they’re very caring
things that he says to him. Is it partly because he loves his brother? I like
to think so. Is it also because that’s what his brother needs… to leave?
Perhaps.

Thor to Loki (Thor: Ragnarok novel): “In the past I demanded the throne when I hadn’t earned it, and then
refused the throne when Asgard needed me most.”

“Thor ragnarok show us
more of their wonderful relationship as children, funny but a little fucked up
on loki’s part.”<- I have ranted so much about Gagnarok by now it makes
me want to gag. In short Loki was ridiculously OOC and Thor wasn’t even Thor in
that film.

“So yeah, Loki is the
worst brother and anyone would have given up on him a long time ago but Thor is
just that good.”<- You know how Thor said something like “I’m only alive
because Fate wants me alive”? I disagree.

He’s only alive because his “worst brother” gave up the
Tesseract to save his thick head from getting crushed by Thanos and that’s a fact.

I don’t endorse the “Gagnarok” label – it’s entirely too easy for people to make fun of it and dismiss serious criticisms on account of a punny insulting nickname – but everything @rewritefate, @lucianalight, and @yume-no-fantasy say in the way of analysis of character and events is exactly right. Kudos to you guys for patiently going through yet another interpretation-challenged person’s regurgitated Ragnarok-dictated talking points.

And here’s this person, like so many other supposed Loki fans, saying “I love Loki, I really do, but” and then detailing how he’s a completely morally bankrupt, power-hungry, sadistic narcissist with no good reasons for doing anything he did. What, exactly, do they love? You can definitely “love” villains who have no redeeming personal qualities – in a way, I kind of “love” General Hux because he’s hilarious, and I definitely love his bizarre perpetual pissing contest of a relationship with Kylo Ren (yes, Kylux is my crack ship) – but not in anything like the way I love Loki. Loki was built from the first Thor movie as a character with depth, with complicated not-entirely-selfish motives, with severe distortions in his worldview but always with reasons you can comprehend and, on some level, sympathize with even when you strongly condemn his actions.

The fact that people are spouting claims about Loki’s motivations in previous film that contradict what you see onscreen but jibe with the claims about Loki that Ragnarok shoves down our throats indicates that it was entirely too successful in writing over the history of these characters and flattening everything into a simple black and white Thor=good and Loki=bad equation. And people are all too ready to accept that. I’d like to think it’s only the people who saw Ragnarok first and only later watched the other movies through its distorted lens, but I suspect some of the people gleefully latching onto this interpretation also claimed to have been fans of the previous movies even before Ragnarok came out. And the fact that they’re saying “Loki has always considered himself superior to Thor and I’m not sure he ever stopped” indicates that even the scene that never made it into Ragnarok, with Loki as an emo-goth Draco Malfoy-esque bully and Thor as the chubby bullied kid, has taken precedence in the minds of much of the fandom over things that actually were in canon, such as Thor reminding Loki of “his place” and Loki’s angry, impassioned confession – obviously not a calculated lie, if you just fucking watch the movie – “I only ever wanted to be your equal.”

It shouldn’t matter that casual MCU fans now worship at the shrine of Ragnarok and piss all over the previous characterizations of the main characters. But most of the people who consider themselves part of the Thor, Loki, Thor-and-Loki, and Thorki fandoms think this way, too. It makes me so sad and angry. Most of the people who claim to love the same characters I do really don’t; they love (or “love”) very different characters and then tell me I’m wrong for respecting the versions that were established first. I wish it were possible to build a wall between the people who still love Thor and Loki and the people who have allowed Thor* and Loki* (their Ragnarok versions) to be painted over them. They really should be two separate fandoms.

edge-of-silvermoon:

cosmicjoke:

sapphiredreamer26:

sonepegg:

lucianalight:

sigridlaufeyson:

catwinchester:

asgardianss:

Please be thor 4

Bitch what the fuck?! I am so done with this fandom! If it’s gonna be Thor 4, I rather have Loki stay dead or Taika will fuck him up even more.

Agreed. Some part of me like to see TW direct another franchise of MCU just so people see how he can ruin it but that’s really not fair for the fans who don’t like his work.

Don’t really see how they can even do Thor 4, considering they’ve killed off pretty much the entire supporting cast.

Unless they just make it the Thor and Korg show which…no.

And if he directs any other movie, I think Marvel should be prepared for Waititi to completely ignore the comics, and any other ideas Marvel may have, because he will create his own monstrosity of a story line filled with endless gags.

Fuck it. Who cares. I’m done with the Marvel Cinematic Universe anyway. It lost the plot long ago at this point. Hemsworth and Waititi can go have their circle jerk together. Loki’s apparently dead for good, so Tom Hiddleston won’t have to taint himself with this trash anymore anyway.

But they absolutely have the ability to belittle and humiliate Loki and distort his character further in dialogues. Just…no. I don’t want them touching any thing even remotely related to Loki ever again. =(

And I’m still out here saying they fucked up Thor’s character even worse than Loki’s. To be honest I don’t care as much because I never personally identified with Thor the way I did with Loki, so it didn’t feel like an attack on me (and everyone else with mental illness) the way Loki’s retcon did. But yeah, I’m about ready to wash my hands of the MCU entirely. I’m already sorry I spent money on any of it.

foundlingmother:

foundlingmother:

*deep breath*

The second most irritating thing a person can say in regards to Loki is that that he faked his sacrifice in TDW. Bonus points if they’re a fan of Ragnarok, which goes out of its way to point out how Loki’s illusions are not solid. THEY ARE NOT SOLID. They become distorted when touched. So how the fuck did Loki fake being stabbed? And when he nearly got sucked into a black hole grenade saving Jane, was that part of his master plan to take the throne of Asgard, too? What about offering said throne to Thor? Ugh!

The most irritating thing a person can say in regards to Loki is that he faked his death/suicide in Thor. I have no words for these people. They render me speechless.

Honorable mention goes to people who call Loki fascist in Avengers. I assume because they can’t understand subtext. Bonus points if they were around before Ragnarok and thought Loki was a great, sympathetic villain, and have only now started talking trash about his characterization pre-Ragnarok because it’s in to hate on the previous iterations, especially those written by Whedon.

Loki dropped him like 25,000 feet in a glass cage, he told him that his father was dead, he backhanded him with the destroyer, he stabbed him in the chest – on several different occasions. The fact is that had Thor not turned the tables on him in that moment that he was going to hand him back over to the grandmaster to be put back in the cage and used for his battles. Thor and Loki are called gods for a reason. And he laughed b/ he knew that Loki would get out of it like he does everything.

lucianalight:

I got this ask in response to this post.

None of the things you mentioned can be considered as torture. Loki dropped Thor with the glass cage right after he saw that Mjolnir could crack the glass. The reason Thor stopped attempting to break the glass wasn’t because the glass was unbreakable, but because the cage would fall if he continued. So Loki knew Thor could free himself before the cage hit the ground. Yes, Loki lied to Thor about Odin’s death and he almost killed him with that backhand and IMO these are very horrible and

the worst things he ever did to Thor. Still they are not torture. He broke Thor with his lies but those lies showed Thor that the consequences of his actions can be very grave. Also an argument can be made that if Loki really wanted Thor dead, he would incinerate him with the destroyer not backhand him. The only time Loki really stabbed Thor was in The Avengers. They were fighting, and it was a stab to the gut not the chest and it was with a really small blade that didn’t harm Thor that much. The stab in TDW was an illusion(again that was a stab to the gut), because when he lifted the illusion Thor’s armor was intact while in The Avengers, Thor’s armor remained torn after the stab.

No one said Thor shouldn’t have stopped Loki from betraying him. But Thor could simply make Loki unconscious with the obedience disk(I explained in this post that the device has two settings). That would be acceptable. But Thor chose to leave Loki in constant pain with the device on for an infinite amount of time. Yes, Thor and Loki are called gods and they are more durable. But just because they can tolerate more pain, it doesn’t make it ok to inflict pain on them. It’s still pain and the obedience disc is a torture device. And no Thor had no way of knowing that Loki could get out of it. In fact he knew Loki couldn’t free himself. Thor with all his power, was paralyzed by the obedience disc. Even his lightning couldn’t get him free from it. Only the control device could free Loki. And he was unable to move.

What is torture?

“The action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a
punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure
of the person inflicting the pain.”

Thor didn’t just stopped Loki’s betrayal. He inflicted severe pain on him for an infinite amount of time

as punishment for his betrayal and then had the audacity to gleefully preach Loki about growth and change and laugh at his pain.

What Thor did in TR was torture and that makes him so much ooc that I don’t consider TR Thor, the real Thor.

I think it would be appropriate to reiterate what I said in the last post linked in the above (the one arguing that the obedience disc is a torture device), so here it is again for people who don’t bother to follow links:

< I’ve been seeing a lot of people try to justify Thor* by pointing out that Loki has done worse things to him; most commonly they will cite the incident in The Avengers where Loki drops Thor out of the Helicarrier in the Hulk cage. (This is such a common move that I feel like it’s got to be in some Thor* stan/ Ragnarok defense playbook.) Here is why that comparison doesn’t accomplish what they want it to accomplish:

It was entirely reasonable for Loki to think he was not endangering Thor’s life. He knew Thor could get out of the cage because he had Mjolnir with him. As far as we can tell, in Ragnarok, Thor* had no way of knowing that the first people who would happen along were Korg & co. as opposed to, e.g., Topaz, who probably would have just killed Loki while he was incapacitated. Maybe he did have some way of knowing, but this was not made at all clear in the film. So even if he didn’t think he was endangering Loki’s life, he was being culpably negligent.
In The Avengers, Loki was acting as an adversary, and everyone was completely aware of that. He was trying to hamper his opponents by scattering them, and possibly to demoralize Thor by showing that he wasn’t going to get his brother back. In Ragnarok, Thor* presented what he did as some kind of “tough love” – punishing Loki “for his own good,” with the aim of getting Loki back on his side rather than (as Loki was doing in The Avengers) turning him decisively against him. If you can’t see why that’s kind of fucked up, well…
Loki is clearly aware that what he’s doing in The Avengers is wrong. He hesitates before he hits the button to drop the cage, and hesitates again (with tears in his eyes, FFS!) before he stabs Thor later. He’s conflicted, and it’s not unreasonable to think he regrets hurting Thor when he’s no longer under direct threat from Thanos (his attempts at self-justification in TDW have a defensive air that make me think the lady doth protest too much). In Ragnarok, Thor* just looks smug and self-righteous about the electrocution thing, even though he’s very aware that Loki is in severe pain. >

And I’m sure I’ve said it somewhere else, but again, it doesn’t really make sense to compare the electrocution in Ragnarok to the things Loki did to Thor in Thor 1 and The Avengers because in both of the latter cases, it’s made pretty clear that Loki isn’t in his right mind. In Thor 1, Loki has pretty clearly been profoundly disturbed by the revelation that he actually belongs to a race that he has been taught all his life to hate and fear (and that Thor has twice vowed to “finish”). He is convinced that the reason Odin always favored Thor is because Loki is really Jotun, not Asgardian, so he’s desperate to prove how very Asgardian and not Jotun he really is. I agree that it’s not clear whether Loki meant to kill Thor with the Destroyer; he must have known that killing Odin’s other son wouldn’t be a great way of earning his favor. (Maybe he had it backhand rather than incinerate him so he could pass it off as an accident… or maybe he lacked commitment there too.) At any rate, he is very obviously emotionally and psychologically unwell for… over half of the movie, tbh, but it becomes increasingly obvious in the last third.

In The Avengers, Loki shows up looking like shit; his eyes are wild and hollow and he’s saying some really weird stuff. When they communicate through the scepter, the Other threatens him and he looks terrified. No, Loki wasn’t completely under Thanos’s control and maybe he bears some responsibility for getting himself into that position… but again, he’s clearly been through some shit and is under severe duress. And, as noted above, he’s conflicted about hurting Thor.

Thor* has no such excuse or explanation in Ragnarok. On the contrary; he’s presented as being fully in control, cool-headed, rational, oh-so-cleverly out-thinking his clever brother. He even thought up this scheme in advance, because he predicted that Loki would betray him (for no good reason other than it was needed as set-up for the “trickster tricked” scenario where Loki gets his painful, humiliating comeuppance). Thor*’s action is more blameworthy than anything Loki has done to him because he does it while in full possession of his faculties and shows sadistic glee at making Loki suffer.

And no, Loki has not been stabbing Thor or “trying to kill him” since they were children. Taika Waititi pulled that out of his ass. It should be obvious from Thor 1 that Thor trusts Loki, that they’ve been comrades in arms for centuries, and that Loki’s betrayal and his demand that Thor fight him come as an incredible shock. If you want to accept the stabbing-since-childhood BS as canon, then you’d better stop citing anything Loki does in Thor 1, including telling Thor their father is dead and striking him with the Destroyer, because clearly you’re ignoring what that movie established as the longtime dynamic between them. You want to pretend previous canon doesn’t exist? Then at least do it consistently.

latent-thoughts:

foundlingmother:

*deep breath*

The second most irritating thing a person can say in regards to Loki is that that he faked his sacrifice in TDW. Bonus points if they’re a fan of Ragnarok, which goes out of its way to point out how Loki’s illusions are not solid. THEY ARE NOT SOLID. They become distorted when touched. So how the fuck did Loki fake being stabbed? And when he nearly got sucked into a black hole grenade saving Jane, was that part of his master plan to take the throne of Asgard, too? What about offering said throne to Thor? Ugh!

The most irritating thing a person can say in regards to Loki is that he faked his death/suicide in Thor. I have no words for these people. They render me speechless.

Also coming in at runner’s up position: Stating “I love Loki, I really do, buuuuuut….” before going into how they think that Loki deserved every bad thing that happened to him, and also, mentioning many other things about Loki’s character which are clearly not based in MCU canon.

In short, justifying their asinine views w.r.t. Loki under the garb of being a Loki fan.

“I love Loki, I really do, but he’s a complete piece of garbage with no redeeming personal qualities whatsoever who deserves no sympathy for anything.”

Yeah, most people don’t call that “loving” a character.

(P.S. if you think Loki is a completely unsympathetic piece of garbage and Thor is an angel who’s never done anything wrong, please get off my ship. Go ship Thor/Bruce or something equally obnoxious.)

I loved CH so much before the whole Thor 3 disaster & I never believed the rumours that he was angry that people cared more about Loki than Thor but now seing him trash talk Thor 1&2 I begin to think these may not be only rumours after all. It’s really disappointing but honestly, Hemsworth may be overselling himself as an actor quite a lot. There are so many big name actors and frankly more talented actors so of course people would care more about them. And it’s no secret TH is a better actor

lokiloveforever:

I’m really disappointed too, I liked him alot too. I definitely see CH in a different light now, and it’s not nice. I think his attitude is gross. I think he only wants to be good at what he cares about, which is comedy, and to hell with emotion, depth and range. But whatever, as long as he’s not bored. I agree with what you said as well.

Wait, I thought Chris just dumped on TDW, not Thor 1. He said the first one was good, right? Maybe in a dismissive way, but still.

The sad thing is I don’t even think he’s that funny. Even in Ghostbusters I was kind of cringing whenever he was onscreen.

I really only liked CH when he and Tom seemed to have a relationship of mutual affection and admiration. It became clear at some point that the relationship was very one-sided. Poor Tom… he seems very sweet and seems to want to see the best in everyone. (Including Taylor Swift, which… c’mon, dude.) I don’t know why Tom thinks Chris is a good actor, other than (1) the desire to see the best, (2) the fact that everyone becomes a better actor when acting opposite Tom, and (3) being a good artist doesn’t make you a good critic any more than the reverse.

Chris Hemsworth’s “brutal” review of The Dark World

juliabohemian:

I’m not writing this to start shit. I don’t want to argue about this with anyone. This is how I feel. Period.

First of all, The Dark World is a movie that received rave reviews, almost entirely for Tom Hiddleston’s performance. Thor’s presence in that film wasn’t terrible by any means. But it was weak, and his performance did not stand out. The film is a favorite among Loki fans, because it pays the most attention to him as a character. The film was also released several months after Tom made his infamous appearance at Comicon, where he literally became an actual god. So yes, it makes sense that Chris might be bitter about the film in general. It certainly wasn’t the Chris Show that Ragnarok was, by any means.

What I find amusing is that Chris apparently thinks the initial Thor film was also terrible…for all the reasons it was actually a decent piece of cinema. His feelings are valid. Of course he is entitled to his opinions. But to express them publicly was poor form. I am embarrassed for him, for his lack of discretion, and his complete disrespect for those who gave him a chance when he was still a nobody.

If by some chance you are the type of actor who values action above all else…if you like explosions and cheap humor and jokes about poop and genitalia…if you just want people to ogle your muscles and tell you you’re hot…if you find Shakespeare to be boring and generally too difficult to recite or comprehend…please don’t pretend to feel otherwise just to get a part in a movie that you hope will skyrocket your career. And please do not turn around, years later, and talk shit about the very thing that allowed you to have a career in the first place. And please, when your co-stars reap well deserved success for their efforts, support them. Do not throw them under the bus. Do not agree to remake your own image at their expense. Do not forsake those who helped pave the way to your success. It might seem like none of this will ever come back to bite you. It might seem as though you are invincible. But I promise you, in Hollywood, there is no such thing.

Honestly, I wish they had cast someone else as Thor. Maybe even Liam Hemsworth would have been better.

I doubt that this particular thing will come back to bite him; it’s pretty safe to trash-talk a movie about which the “consensus” is that it wasn’t very good, especially when you’re riding the high from a movie that is supposedly leagues better. I don’t really blame Ryan Reynolds for talking crap about Green Lantern. But it does seem especially callous, or at least tone-deaf, to say TDW was “meh” when Tom’s performance in it was, as you note, very well-reviewed.

It appears that to convey that “it’s all about me” self-absorption that Thor* exuded in Ragnarok, all Chris had to do was act naturally.