What even is Loki’s plan in Thor?

foundlingmother:

I’ve discovered there are people who believe Loki intended from the beginning of Thor to commit genocide. I don’t understand how anyone could possibly interpret the movie this way.

Here’s everything we know about Loki’s plan prior to the jaunt through Jotunheim: Loki allowed a hostile foreign power into Asgard, resulting in the deaths of the Einherjar guarding Odin’s Vault. I’ll ignore that this power’s trying to retrieve the object that will allow them to revitalize their dying homeworld–Laufey probably would use it to get revenge, and

Loki didn’t let them in to help them with that. He helped them to ruin Thor’s coronation. Then, he precedes to use Thor’s militant personality against him. Thor’s chewing at the bit to go to war with Jotunheim. Loki merely states that there’s nothing Thor can do without defying their father. Not exactly a master feat of manipulation, guys. We also know Loki tells one of the Einherjar where they’re going, and tells him to go to Odin. That’s it. That’s everything. We don’t even know why Loki ruined Thor’s coronation. He tells Laufey it was for a bit of fun, and I’m actually inclined to believe that’s part of it. Personally, I headcanon he meant to demonstrate his own skills to Odin. Thor starts a war with reckless violence, and Loki ends it with careful diplomacy and manipulation. He might have been overestimating himself, but I believe that was his plan.

Why do I separate Loki’s plan into before and after Jotunheim? I would hope that’s self-explanatory, but I guess not. Loki discovers on Jotunheim that he’s a Jotun. No, it’s not confirmed until later, but this is when he realizes (because he’s not stupid). When Thor and Odin argue at the Bifrost, Thor repeats how much he’d like to wipe out the Jotunar, and Loki takes a deep breathe to calm down. Anyone who believes this realization’s anything but world shattering for Loki can unfollow me right now. Jotunar are talked about like the Asgardian equivalent of the fucking boogeyman. Loki says this. You can’t grow up in a culture so disgustingly racist and not freak out when you discover you’re part of the group their racist against. Especially when, for your entire life, your brother’s been saying how much he’d like to kill your entire race. World shattering. Any plans he had probably went out the fucking window.

I’ve got other reasons to think Loki’s plans couldn’t have been the same throughout the whole movie. First, I go back and forth on whether Loki expected Odin to cast Thor out. Even if I give people that he knew Thor would be banished, I’ve no clue how some people think Loki knew Odin would fall into Odinsleep. Frigga states in the movie that they weren’t prepared for this. Now, perhaps some people believe Loki caused it, but I don’t get that vibe whatsoever. It’s fine if you want to headcanon that, but I don’t think there’s any evidence to state with absolute confidence that’s what happened. It always seemed to me that Odin went to sleep because he’s under a lot of stress and Loki screaming at him’s the final straw. He’s been putting the Odinsleep off. That’s why he meant to make Thor king. Also, Loki seemed pretty surprised and upset Odin fell into Odinsleep, and he didn’t have an audience. He didn’t need to lie in the vault.

So when and why does he contemplate genocide? After discovering he’s a monster (his words), Loki’s initial goal to make Odin proud becomes ten times more important. Now it’s a matter of proving he’s worthy of being called Odinson. He’s also trying to kill the part of himself that he can’t accept. He murders his biological father, and states that Laufey’s death came by the son of Odin. This murder and attempted genocide are external expressions of his self-loathing. This isn’t an excuse for his behavior. He fucking kills people. He’s the villain here, and I only seek to explain his behavior. I don’t know why people hate the thought that Loki might be more complicated than a privileged pissbaby prince. He’s having an identity crisis and a mental breakdown. Also, he’s not trying to prevent Thor’s return because he wants the throne and power. He’s preventing Thor’s return because Loki’s just realized that Thor’s the real son. He already believed he couldn’t hold a candle to Thor, and discovering he’s Jotun cements that. He’ll never be Thor’s equal, in Odin’s eyes, and in his own eyes (the whole internalized racism/self-hatred things a real bitch). That breaks him.

Sidenote: I think there’s evidence to suggest Odin does hold Thor and Loki to different standards, and legitimately favors Thor (my dad had this problem of loving my twin, who’s adopted, but very clearly favoring his biological daughters, and now favoring his son above everyone). Thor and Hela get banished, whilst Loki’s punishment for similar crimes (less than Hela’s and worse than Thor’s) would have been death if not for Frigga.


My analysis is far from unique, but I had to write this because I just rewatched Thor and I’m committed to not erasing elements of Thor and Loki’s characters for the sake of the hero/villain thing. Expect a post about how Thor can be wrong (le gasp!) and is still a good person and the hero within the next few days (I’ve got to find and quote the scripts for Thor, Avengers, and TDW for that one).

Also, I wonder if some of the people who seem to ignore Loki’s internalized racism and mental health problems come from a background of reading comics? In the comics, Loki’s always known he’s a Jotun, so he doesn’t have the same identity issues, and he behaves even worse. Or maybe they just don’t like Loki or villains you can sympathize with. Those are my favorites though… *pats Magneto on the head* Is it also woobifying if I bring up that Magneto’s mutant supremacy has roots in his traumatic experiences during the Holocaust? It seems you’ll get accused of woobifying for even acknowledging canonically sympathetic villains as being anything but living garbage.

@philosopherking1887 Forgive me for @ing you, but this was inspired by the meta last night.

Anyone who seriously thinks Loki was plotting genocide from the beginning of “Thor” needs to get their eyes, ears, and brains checked. Tumblr’s black-and-white morality complex just keeps rearing its ugly head and making me hate this site more and more. (That’s the real abusive relationship here: this hellsite and any of its users who still have half a brain.)

lityousei:

Thor & Loki – Book Ends Trope

This is especially interesting since (as we in the fandom often forget) the scene with Thor and Loki before the coronation was deleted from the final cut of the movie. If Waititi was going for re-creation of the framing of those scenes, he must have been counting on people having watched the deleted scene. Of course, the only people who would notice the visual parallels are people who are dedicated enough to watch all the deleted scenes…

“you were both born to be kings.”

mizstorge:

amandatheangrygirl:

jhameia:

glamaphonic:

hariboo replied to your post: ala-away replied to your post: I WILL SPARE YOU…

perfect post.

unicornicopia replied to your post: ala-away replied to your post: I WILL SPARE YOU…

I was reading the Thor: the movie kids novel and it was like “Thor was like Odin but Loki was much closer to his mother” AND I ASDFK;AJLSDGJKL;ASDKFGJSLD

OH OH OH and let me take this opportunity to add to my many excessive thoughts about Asgardian royal family values re: Odin Is The Worst Dad.

I know that a lot of people take Odin at face value wrt his feelings for Loki, I guess, and go OH HE REALLY DIDN’T TELL LOKI BECAUSE HE JUST LOVED HIM and LOKI WAS JUST TWISTING HIS WORDS LIKE HE SAID despite the meaningful repetition of “He always does things for a reason,” even though he tried initially to deny it to Loki by calling him son, even while Loki demanded to know WHAT MORE THAN THAT because there had to be more than that and they both knew it.

But, you guys, like you understand what he did right? You understand what his plan was?

He stole a baby, not just any baby, but the King of Jotunheim’s son, and raised it as Asgardian with the intention of “making a permanent peace” through Loki and he would have done it, if not for Thor and company’s trip to Jotunheim that shattered the truce.

Let that sink in.

The only way Loki is valuable for making permanent peace is if Odin reveals him as Laufey’s lost heir. (Which is why btw I call UNRELIABLE NARRATOR BULLSHIT on ~abandoned~ and ~left to die~ because YOU CANNOT MAKE PEACE THROUGH A BABY THEY DIDN’T FUCKING WANT.) He was making Thor king, so obviously, the time for the fruition of this plan was near.

And what was this plan exactly for permanent peace through Loki? IT COULD ONLY BE TO DEPOSE LAUFEY AND THEN PUT LOKI, LAUFEY’S RIGHTFUL HEIR, IN HIS PLACE. 

~making a permanent peace~

with a King of Jotunheim Odin raised away from his home because he thought that they were too cruel or barbaric or wtfever for any other kind of diplomacy.

~making a permanent peace~

with a King of Jotunheim who would hate his own people and think them monsters that needed to be controlled and contained and feared because that’s all he’s ever known and no one ever bothered to try to get him to think otherwise.

~making a permanent peace~

by having stolen

and raised

a King of Jotunheim that would bow to Asgard.

MAN THAT ODIN SURE IS A KEEPER, ISN’T HE?

This post is beautiful and perfect. When I was considering Loki’s role as stolen relic, I was also thinking of him as a kind of trans-racial adoptee, being adopted into a culture where he is Other, and he discovers this, that like all the other things in the chamber, he’s been stripped of his original context, has nowhere to turn to but the space where he remains Othered, like how many TRAs were stripped of their original culture so they “fit in better” with the adopted one. 

So the next time I watch this movie and watch Loki scream “JUST ANOTHER STOLEN RELIC” I might cry. 

More thoughts on the subject here:

Loki: An Allegory About Internalised Racism

And THIS is the reason why I:

  • find myself shouting terrible things at the screen every time I watch Thor
  • am no longer allowed to watch Thor in the company or general vicinity of normal people
  • should never watch Thor while handling a steam iron

I swear, even when I’m 80, every time I watch Thor I will be like this:

In the comments to Loki: An Allegory About Internalized Racism (link above), there’s this comment by Thor writer Zack Stentz to prove that We Haven’t Just Imagined This™:

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