Tag: ragnarok hate

In case you were wondering why I’ve been so bad about reading and/or writing fic lately, and instead have mostly been reblogging shitposts and liveblogging my rewatch of “Buffy” and “Angel,” with some occasional MCU-directed salt mixed in (and now Tumblr-directed salt; I started writing this post before the apocalypse), it’s because I am So Done with Marvel.

I no longer accept either Ragnarok or Infinity War as canon. I will not read fics that take them as canon – not even fix-it fics. (Or your super-dark rage fics, @illwynd. Do-overs are fair game, though, so @foundlingmother is in luck.) I regret that I wrote a few fics assuming Ragnarok as canon, before I realized what a horror show it is.

My imagination is firmly ensconced in my alternate universe in which Guillermo del Toro wrote and directed Ragnarok and Joss Whedon wrote and directed Infinity War (and its sequel/second part, as needed). Maybe Guillermo recast Charlie Hunnam as Thor once Hemsworth decided he was tired of pretending to be a dramatic actor, or maybe Hunnam was cast as Thor from the outset. (Part of the reason that Hemsworth was cast is that Whedon put in a good word for him, having worked with him on The Cabin in the Woods. Even the best creators make mistakes; Michelle Trachtenberg wasn’t great as Dawn, either.) I’m not sure who wrote Civil War, but it wasn’t those dimwitted hacks Markus and McFeely. Maybe it was Jed Whedon and Maurissa Tancharoen; they did a good job dealing with the moral quandaries of the Accords on “Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.” Or hell, maybe it was Aaron Sorkin. This is my fantasy world. Go big or go home, amirite?

I’m not going to try to write any of these versions because I’m not Guillermo del Toro, Joss or Jed Whedon, or Aaron Sorkin. I have only very vague ideas of what these movies would be like. Maybe I’ve frozen time at the point where all of the writers/directors have been announced but the movies haven’t come out. Maybe we have some stills. Hela actually has half a face and it looks awesome. Loki and Thanos have some meaningful interactions. Josh Brolin is very excited about all of their scenes and the fraught history revealed between them.

I’m not sure what stage of grief this is. The obvious choice would be Denial, but I think Denial was actually before I figured out just how terrible TR was (and was still writing fics acknowledging it). I’ve definitely been in Anger for most of the time since then, so I guess this must be some weird form of Bargaining? Like, in my mind I’m trying to trade the canon we have for the canon we should have had.

illwynd:

illwynd:

foundlingmother:

I read a pro-Ragnarok meta (in particular, it’s pro-Thor and Loki’s “reconciliation”). I don’t want to annoy the person, but I want to talk through some of the things it made me think about, so here’s some word vomit under the cut.

Keep reading

Thiiiiiis. I read that same meta, and you’ve laid out exactly why that interpretation will never work for me. That was maybe a reconciliation for a completely different Thor and Loki, though I personally don’t find it a very compelling one. But it definitely makes no sense for the characters we knew before. 

Also I want to pull this out, the idea that it is being interpreted that way due to a belief

that Loki’s betrayal of Thor is a pattern intrinsic to Loki’s personality, and not a deviation from a thousand year norm of loyalty stemming from Loki’s various traumas

because that is a fuckin good observation.

It is at the very least a lot more complicated than “loki betrays, as a matter of course, because ¯_(ツ)_/¯” and it is in fact not in the nature of trickster figures in general or Loki in particular to betray their (very few) loved ones reflexively, for no reason, just for shits and giggles. Even at his most flippant and devil-may-care (e.g., some of the early comics), he has comprehensible (if uncomfortable) motivations: he may turn cars into ice cream because it’s amusing, but he wouldn’t be coming up with hilarious ways to be a shit-stirrer in that context if it weren’t for his resentments, his jealousies, his broken relationship with his brother. And you don’t fix that by having Thor throw up his hands and say “well, you do you, catch ya on the flipside”

it is in fact not in the nature of trickster figures in general or Loki in particular to betray their (very few) loved ones reflexively, for no reason, just for shits and giggles.

Thank you for saying that – and I know that you’ve done more thorough research and contemplation of the cross-mythology trickster archetype than I have (or probably anyone else in this godsforsaken fandom). I’m so tired of hearing people insist that Ragnarok was a welcome return to Loki’s “canonical” (in comics? myths? what is “canon” here?) characterization as “a trickster” rather than a Shakespearean tragic villain. It’s a pretty simplistic, cartoonish version of a trickster… and that might be insulting to cartoons.

aurora-nerin:

dardisblue:

can we talk about Marvel official website has updated Loki’s bio that confirms the “Loki was under the influence of the mind stone” fan theory?

Not a Loki apologist here, he did what he did, but a lot of stuff, his version of how he fell from the Bifrost, that speech in Germany, especially the “sudden clarity” scene with Thor makes a lot more sense. 

Seems like after 10 fuckin years marvel saw a value in Loki and has stopped shitting on him. What a time to be alive

#tbh it was always pretty clear that we were meant to read something like that into it#and because it’s there in the original performance I’m not convinced that marvel is suddenly aware of Loki as a worthwhile character#i think someone has figured out he’s bankable#but their understanding of him has never been worse than now (via @illwynd)

Gonna be totally tacky and toot my own horn, but a) I knew it and b) I think I have a better hypothesis on how exactly Loki was influenced by the Mind Stone than anyone at Marvel does. (I think even Joss Whedon didn’t think it all the way through.)

And yes, in 2011-2013 Marvel saw Loki’s value and complexity. Fanboys and certain other actors who were jealous of Loki’s popularity (notably with women) seem to have played a role in Marvel’s decision to shit on his character in his most recent movie appearances. I’m not sure why they’re coming back around to acknowledging his complexity, other than that you can’t sustain a TV show with the cartoon character we got in Ragnarok.

{Salt}

shine-of-asgard:

lucianalight:

seiramili7:

I love seeing salty THORturer fans’s asses got roasted by reality. 

Producer: “Mr. Hemsworth, you have the choice between guest starring in the new Lowki series or chewing broken glass.” Hemsworth: ”May I have some sriracha and a spoon for my glass shards?”

lackey’s mini series has been confirmed. disney loves to beat a dead horse and squeeze a dead fandom dry. a lot of people want hems to gueststar. I can not tell you how much I hate that idea. I don’t think hems enjoys working with him and if there is another thor movie i’d like it lackey-free.

So satisfying to watch…..

I’m glad that 90% of possibility is that Chris Hems will not appear on the show otherwise the story will be instantly ruined by his unconvincing and half-asses “acting”. 

Also, did those Thorturer fans really just putting Chris Hems on the “same level” with RDJ and Chris Evans?? That’s extremely disgraceful for classy actors like them. 

On a side note, I hope that this shows prove that Loki can exist perfectly fine without being involved in toxic relationship with his self-centered brother. I want Loki to find love/happiness outside of his shitty, toxic, and abusive family, and that means stay away as far as possible from his family especially his witless oaf brother who always made his life worse by abusing his identity repeatedly until Loki had to submitted to their toxic relationship like in the first place, again, instead of getting away from it. 

Wow! Seems like the confirmation of a Loki TV show really hit a nerve with some Loki haters. And I have to say I agree with some of their points @seiramili7 ! I don’t think CH enjoys working with TH anymore since Tom’s performance overshadows his acting. I love the idea of a real reconciliation for Thor and Loki(you know I loved Thor before TR) but if TR Thor is the characterization we’re going to get from Thor, I don’t want him to guest star either and I don’t want Loki in another Thor movie. Because Loki needs to accept and love himself and he won’t have real happiness if he goes back to be Thor’s shadow.

It honestly makes me laugh that these people are calling Loki’s fandom a “dead fandom” when all the social medias were taken over yesterday by Loki’s Army only with just a news about Loki and a tweet from Tom. This fandom never dies. We literally showed that even if Loki dies in canon we are still here. We still make content and metas and people started petitions for Loki to come back alive. This popularity must be a burn to them that they’re calling Loki, “lackey”. We have TR to thank, for giving Loki haters a derogatory term to use. And you know it is already proven that Loki can exist without Thor since a lot of his scenes don’t involve Thor and Loki has enough depth to be the lead character of a story.

Ohhh… How do I love some Schadenfreude with my breakfast…

Apparently even Hemsworth’s fans think he’s an asshole. Only they don’t seem to realize that being a jerk to/about your colleagues is a bad thing. That says a lot about both them and him.

Like @lucianalight, I’d be happy for Loki to continue having a relationship with Thor. Their relationship was the heart of the first two “Thor” movies and one of the emotional centers of gravity in “The Avengers.” But since CH and TW killed Thor and replaced him with the impostor I call Thor*, I definitely want Thor*, CH, and TW to stay the hell away from Loki. Fuck, I’d be happy if they recast Thor. Luke Hemsworth isn’t a terrible actor, and maybe he could be persuaded to atone for that gross cameo in TR. Or Charlie Hunnam, he looks about right.

Someone just replied to my Hemsworth-critical post saying “you know Loki’s gonna die right?” I think they were trying to hurt my feelings because my icon makes it obvious that I’m a Loki fan foremost (or maybe they just assumed I must be because I “hate Thor,” except I don’t, just the “new and [definitely not] improved Thor”), but it’s just so beside the point that it’s baffling. It’s like responding to any insult or criticism with “oh yeah, your mom’s fat.”