Tag: pro-joss whedon

incredifishface:

thefingerfuckingfemalefury:

elizabethan-ho:

loptrcoptr:

kawaiite-mage:

spikedbat:

joss whedon: loki tortures and murders people for fun, and, despite being the god of CHAOS, is a fascist who says things like “it’s the unspoken truth of humanity that you crave subjugation” 

taika waititi: loki is an annoying little shit who day-drinks, puts on theater about himself, and fucks his way to the top

joss whedon: loki and thor are gods, so they always talk proper and posh and in cryptic riddles so for no reason. it makes them seem more powerful and mystical.

taiki waititi: one time when they were kids loki turned into a snake because he knows thor loves snakes and then thor went to pick up the snake and then loki turned back into himself and screamed “yueagh, it’s me!” and then he stabbed thor

Taika Waititi has a deeper understanding of Norse mythological accuracy than Joss lol

It’s because Joss Whedon looks at all mythology and religion through a Christian-atheist lens. You can see it in Buffy and even a little in Firefly too. Even when he writes about other religions and their deities and practices, it still comes back to Christianity.

He wrote Thor and Loki as modern Western Christianity would portray Jesus and the Devil as opposed to how they actually are in mythology or the comics

That…is a really good addition as to why Whedon gets Thor and Loki
wrong and why Taika did a far better job with their
characters/personalities in Ragnarok

the fandom in 2012: JOSS WHEDON IS A GENIUS AVENGERS IS THE SUPERHERO FILM TO END ALL SUPERHERO FILMS LOKI IS THE SEXIEST COOLEST VILLAIN IN THE UNIVERSE EVER JOSS WHEDON IS THE SHIT

the fandom in 2018: Joss Whedon is Shit, everything he did is shit, here’s some para-meta to justify why everything he ever did is shit.  TAIKA IS IN, HE IS THE SHIT, EVERYTHING HE DOES IS GENIUS, CAN HE DIRECT ALL THE MOVIES, OMG HIS CHARACTERIZATION IS THE ULTIMATE AND BEST, HIS THOR IS ACTUAL REAL THOR HIS LOKI IS ACTUAL NORSE MYTH LOKI AND EVERYTHING THAT CAME BEFORE WAS WRONG AND BAD.

the fandom in 2022…?? 

Oh look, @fuckyeahrichardiii, it’s that hot take about how Taika has Deep Pagan Insight into Original Norse Myth Loki while Whedon is a horrible ignorant white dude who Christianizes everything. You know, the one I said I wasn’t going to reblog and argue with because I was too tired and had better things to do. That’s still true, but now I’m just feeling pissy.

Here’s my historically informed lukewarm Nietzschean take: all of Western culture and literature – including the comics that elizabethan-ho claimed were, like original Norse mythology, somehow Christianity-free – are steeped in the Christian worldview. If you were raised and educated in the European-descended Western world, you cannot escape it. It is everywhere. Even if you’re pagan, you’re still culturally Christian. I am Jewish and I’m culturally Christian. All of our liberal-democratic and/or socialist egalitarian altruistic morality is Christian morality. What’s more, as fuckyeahrichardiii helpfully informed/reminded me, all of the written sources we have on Norse mythology were written by Christians; they are already being interpreted, if a bit uncomfortably, though a Christian lens.

So what if Whedon was giving hints of Thor-as-Jesus and Loki-as-Satan? So were the Miller-Stentz writing team and Kenneth Branagh in Thor 1. I mean, it’s a little more complicated than that because they all show Thor as imperfect and needing moral improvement… so maybe he’s David, not Jesus. Except for the redemption through self-sacrifice thing, that’s a little Jesus-y. And if Loki is Satan, it’s definitely a Romantic Miltonian Satan, who was once an angel and whose fall is tragic. But the point is, it’s impossible to get away from Christian Biblical tropes when they are the skeleton on which the Western literary tradition is hung. We have only conjectures about what the pagan moral mindset was like. And you know what? It almost certainly wouldn’t be anti-imperialist. Yeah, let’s go conquer some shit, then settle down and marry and trade but also make sure the locals know who’s in charge.

philosopherking1887:

foundlingmother replied to your post “Still unfollowing people who post/reblog ill-informed kneejerk Whedon…”

It reminds me how desensitized people are to ableism in films and every day life. Ragnarok has a lot of ableism. I don’t think it’s meant to be hurtful, but then neither is any sexism in the Avengers movies. It’s just two different filmmakers with two different failings in social justice/morality. But Whedon gets rampant hate, while TW gets called a literal god. Tumblr culture is fucking scary…

Let’s not forget the homophobia in Thor: Ragnarok that has somehow been converted, by some strange Tumblrian alchemy, to groundbreakingly wonderful LGBT representation.

Although actually, @foundlingmother, in this instance it wasn’t anything about sexism, it was some bullshit about how Taika’s characterization of Thor and Loki was more “accurate” to Norse mythology while Joss was importing Christianity and portraying them as Jesus and the Devil and I was like… I could write a lengthy post about how off-base that analysis is and also how beside the point that would be as an assessment of MCU films even if it were accurate, or I could just unfollow the reblogger and block the post.

toomanylokifeels:

philosopherking1887:

Unpopular opinion: the movie with the best characterization of a mature Thor is Avengers: Age of Ultron.

The opinions on quality of Thor’s maturity and growth across films will always be subjective, I believe, but Thor in Age of Ultron is underrated in this regard. I think it’s the first movie where we see Thor not necessarily in the process of becoming more mature, but being mature. It’s the first film where Thor isn’t just actively trying to overcome the mistakes of his youth, trying to find his own way in the universe, and/or fighting with sentimental emotions to do what’s right. 

I don’t think this opinion is unpopular simply because many people think that it is completely not true, but rather because this film is unpopular. It’s easy not to pay attention to Thor’s characterization when it’s not a fan favorite for a lot of people. From what I can remember, parts of the fandom were fizzling out and the excitement of the first Avengers film was wearing off. However, what I also remember was the overwhelmingly positive reaction to Thor despite it all. 

I believe that was in part because Thor was the mature one. Thor was the wise one. Thor was the patient one. Thor was willing to face many unknowns in order to make the right decisions. Thor embodied qualities that people wished were present amongst all the other heroes. Of course, this was all made possible by Thor’s growth over the previous films. Thor was relatively sheltered from consequence for a long time as a prince, but was forced to mature.  

Thor was more somber in Age of Ultron, due to the loss of his mother and his brother. While this could have made him self-destruct and I would not blame him for it, he chose to turn his mourning into something productive. He was shaken by the visions he was given, and chose to go out to find answers despite how frightening those answers may be. Furthermore, while his anger often gets the best of him, he only lost control on Tony Stark.

Why? …because he actually understood the gravity of Stark’s choices. Thor wasn’t having a tantrum. He wasn’t aggravated because he was prevented from doing something he wanted or needed to do. He wasn’t being impatient. He was angry because no one seems to be taking the situation as seriously as they should and if they are they’re wallowing in despair, while Thor has been working tirelessly to find solutions to a situation that could have been prevented. 

Thor was the mature one in that film, because he had to be. To me, that doesn’t mean that Thor needs to maintain a serious outlook and attitude across the films moving forward. Thor continues to make difficult decisions despite the amount of pain and loss it brings him, and he’s been able to do so with a serious attitude and with a sunny optimistic disposition as well. Age of Ultron Thor embodies maturity in a lot of ways, though, in a manner that stands out.

It’s just unfortunate that the movie does not equally stand out. 

Unpopular opinion #2: AOU is underrated, largely because people have the knee-jerk impulse to demonstrate their moral purity by hating on Joss Whedon for everything he does – not just his characterization of women, which does have some issues, but also his storytelling and characterization abilities more broadly. Plot-wise, AOU is no messier than Civil War; in terms of character arcs and philosophical depth, it’s in a different league entirely.

Unpopular opinion #3: Ragnarok does not show a mature Thor but “with a sunny optimistic disposition” instead of a serious one; it does not depict Thor at all. Infinity War attempts to get back to mature Thor, but is hampered by the need for some kind of continuity with Ragnarok (which showed no such consideration for its predecessors) and the fact that character was taking a backseat to a contrived plot throughout IW.

Unpopular opinion #1b: Thor in AOU is exactly what “funny Thor” should look like. His sense of humor is subtle and deadpan; he occasionally veers into the undignified, but never comes off as a buffoon.

shine-of-asgard:

loki-god-of-menace:

lokihiddleston:

“Almighty Thanos, I, Loki, Prince of Asgard… Odinson… The
rightful king of Jotunheim, God of Mischief… Do hereby pledge to you, my
undying fidelity.”

[That deep, steadying, terrified breath before his attempt on Thanos’ life just kills me. You can see the tears clinging to his eyes. You can watch him stiffen and coil. You can see him pull all of himself together to make this last, resigned but still brave-to-the-end attempt at bringing down Thanos. It’s heart-wrenching, watching him go to his death to protect Thor.

He deserved better. He always will.]

Anyone remembers the little promotion video of TH filming this and making little up and down jumps? Some people wanted to see a sign of hope in that. I remember thinking that it looked the opposite. Like psyching oneself to do something very unpleasant. Like a come on, let’s get this over with.

Feige also commented some time ago on the scene being difficult for TH. That’s 3 people saying the same fucking thing! So… Not cute. Not funny. And don’t try to tell me TH didn’t know Loki was being shat on. He might have tried to give his best in that scene, but no-one in fandom can even phantom what was going on there. What was Loki trying to accomplish. Concpiracy theories abound. Which is a big mark of how badly written that scene was. It has zero closure and zero sense. But nothing of it it TH fault.

God now I hate these hacks with renewed passion.

I wish Tom had had the power, or maybe the chutzpah, to protest on his character’s behalf. I wish I could believe that there was some big plan, some greater sense, to this absolutely idiotic and gratuitously violent and gruesome death. Which is to say, I wish Markus & McFeely and the Russo brothers had any sense of character or narrative logic.

But more than anything, I wish Feige and Marvel hadn’t alienated Joss Whedon. I wish he had been writing Infinity War. Honestly, I kind of wish he had been around to put the brakes on Taika Waititi’s (and Chris Hemsworth’s) complete mangling of Thor, Loki, and Bruce’s characters. He, unlike M&M and the Russos, had affection and understanding for the Asgardian characters. He was invested in making Loki interesting and formidable, as a reluctant villain and antihero (as reflected in the scenes he rewrote in TDW). He established the connection between Loki and Thanos and I firmly believe he intended to give us some payoff for it.

I find it absurd and ironic that the Marvel higher-ups were doing enough micromanaging on AOU that Joss Whedon threw up his hands in frustration, but apparently they gave Waititi completely free rein to ad lib his way through Ragnarok. I think that shows how little they care about the Thor franchise; it was making them less money, so they were willing to throw it under the bus artistically.