princess-ikol:

philosopherking1887:

foundlingmother:

I’ve discovered there are people who believe Loki intended from the beginning of Thor to commit genocide. I don’t understand how anyone could possibly interpret the movie this way.

Here’s everything we know about Loki’s plan prior to the jaunt through Jotunheim: Loki allowed a hostile foreign power into Asgard, resulting in the deaths of the Einherjar guarding Odin’s Vault. I’ll ignore that this power’s trying to retrieve the object that will allow them to revitalize their dying homeworld–Laufey probably would use it to get revenge, and

Loki didn’t let them in to help them with that. He helped them to ruin Thor’s coronation. Then, he precedes to use Thor’s militant personality against him. Thor’s chewing at the bit to go to war with Jotunheim. Loki merely states that there’s nothing Thor can do without defying their father. Not exactly a master feat of manipulation, guys. We also know Loki tells one of the Einherjar where they’re going, and tells him to go to Odin. That’s it. That’s everything. We don’t even know why Loki ruined Thor’s coronation. He tells Laufey it was for a bit of fun, and I’m actually inclined to believe that’s part of it. Personally, I headcanon he meant to demonstrate his own skills to Odin. Thor starts a war with reckless violence, and Loki ends it with careful diplomacy and manipulation. He might have been overestimating himself, but I believe that was his plan.

Why do I separate Loki’s plan into before and after Jotunheim? I would hope that’s self-explanatory, but I guess not. Loki discovers on Jotunheim that he’s a Jotun. No, it’s not confirmed until later, but this is when he realizes (because he’s not stupid). When Thor and Odin argue at the Bifrost, Thor repeats how much he’d like to wipe out the Jotunar, and Loki takes a deep breathe to calm down. Anyone who believes this realization’s anything but world shattering for Loki can unfollow me right now. Jotunar are talked about like the Asgardian equivalent of the fucking boogeyman. Loki says this. You can’t grow up in a culture so disgustingly racist and not freak out when you discover you’re part of the group their racist against. Especially when, for your entire life, your brother’s been saying how much he’d like to kill your entire race. World shattering. Any plans he had probably went out the fucking window.

I’ve got other reasons to think Loki’s plans couldn’t have been the same throughout the whole movie. First, I go back and forth on whether Loki expected Odin to cast Thor out. Even if I give people that he knew Thor would be banished, I’ve no clue how some people think Loki knew Odin would fall into Odinsleep. Frigga states in the movie that they weren’t prepared for this. Now, perhaps some people believe Loki caused it, but I don’t get that vibe whatsoever. It’s fine if you want to headcanon that, but I don’t think there’s any evidence to state with absolute confidence that’s what happened. It always seemed to me that Odin went to sleep because he’s under a lot of stress and Loki screaming at him’s the final straw. He’s been putting the Odinsleep off. That’s why he meant to make Thor king. Also, Loki seemed pretty surprised and upset Odin fell into Odinsleep, and he didn’t have an audience. He didn’t need to lie in the vault.

So when and why does he contemplate genocide? After discovering he’s a monster (his words), Loki’s initial goal to make Odin proud becomes ten times more important. Now it’s a matter of proving he’s worthy of being called Odinson. He’s also trying to kill the part of himself that he can’t accept. He murders his biological father, and states that Laufey’s death came by the son of Odin. This murder and attempted genocide are external expressions of his self-loathing. This isn’t an excuse for his behavior. He fucking kills people. He’s the villain here, and I only seek to explain his behavior. I don’t know why people hate the thought that Loki might be more complicated than a privileged pissbaby prince. He’s having an identity crisis and a mental breakdown. Also, he’s not trying to prevent Thor’s return because he wants the throne and power. He’s preventing Thor’s return because Loki’s just realized that Thor’s the real son. He already believed he couldn’t hold a candle to Thor, and discovering he’s Jotun cements that. He’ll never be Thor’s equal, in Odin’s eyes, and in his own eyes (the whole internalized racism/self-hatred things a real bitch). That breaks him.

Sidenote: I think there’s evidence to suggest Odin does hold Thor and Loki to different standards, and legitimately favors Thor (my dad had this problem of loving my twin, who’s adopted, but very clearly favoring his biological daughters, and now favoring his son above everyone). Thor and Hela get banished, whilst Loki’s punishment for similar crimes (less than Hela’s and worse than Thor’s) would have been death if not for Frigga.

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My analysis is far from unique, but I had to write this because I just rewatched Thor and I’m committed to not erasing elements of Thor and Loki’s characters for the sake of the hero/villain thing. Expect a post about how Thor can be wrong (le gasp!) and is still a good person and the hero within the next few days (I’ve got to find and quote the scripts for Thor, Avengers, and TDW for that one).

Also, I wonder if some of the people who seem to ignore Loki’s internalized racism and mental health problems come from a background of reading comics? In the comics, Loki’s always known he’s a Jotun, so he doesn’t have the same identity issues, and he behaves even worse. Or maybe they just don’t like Loki or villains you can sympathize with. Those are my favorites though… *pats Magneto on the head* Is it also woobifying if I bring up that Magneto’s mutant supremacy has roots in his traumatic experiences during the Holocaust? It seems you’ll get accused of woobifying for even acknowledging canonically sympathetic villains as being anything but living garbage.

@philosopherking1887 Forgive me for @ing you, but this was inspired by the meta last night.

Anyone who seriously thinks Loki was plotting genocide from the beginning of “Thor” needs to get their eyes, ears, and brains checked. Tumblr’s black-and-white morality complex just keeps rearing its ugly head and making me hate this site more and more. (That’s the real abusive relationship here: this hellsite and any of its users who still have half a brain.)

shit, are people actually saying that? oh boy, they should be glad they weren’t here in 2012…

I think they were here in 2012-13 and that’s precisely why they’re saying it. Not because there are any good textual reasons for believing it – there aren’t – but just to set themselves apart from the unconditional Loki justifiers/woobifiers as much as possible.