pet peeve – when people call loki’s speech in iw character development
1. it’s not development when it comes out of nowhere
2. it’s not development if it was all resolved in the previous movies
i just hate how loki was used in the past two movies. they just needed him to get from point a. to point b. no explanations for his actions. i think this is what i personally dislike most about both ragnarok and infinity war. yeah there are important changes but i don’t feel them. i used to -get- loki. i don’t anymore. idk maybe it’s just me.
Oh gosh! Yes!
The part that sticks out the most is the way Ragnarok and IW handled Loki being a Frost Giant (I’m sure we’re on exactly the same wavelength in thinking that). Ragnarok shows Loki revealing he’s a Frost Giant to Asgard, and never explores why he did this or the reaction of the people (perhaps because it doesn’t understand or care about how the previous movies would suggest their reaction would be negative).
The why part’s interesting to explore. Some people, myself included, have speculated Loki did a lot of self-healing in the four years he posed as Odin. There are ways that Loki could have been written where it would make sense that he reveals himself (I’m exploring one way in Debts). However, the purpose of the play isn’t to assure us that Loki’s been caring for himself and coming to terms with what he is. It’s to summarize the important points from the previous films in a “respectfully disrespectful” (I believe those were TW’s words) manner, and to show off how silly Loki is for writing a bad play about himself.
And then in IW he claims he’s the rightful king of Jotunheim. What?! The last mention of your feels were in a single line to Thor about how much being lied to hurts. Was I supposed to take from that and the weird play that everything was cool now? That the major fucking catalyst for Loki’s emotional breakdown in Thor was resolved by four years of relaxation and Thor (Loki’s brother who used to talk about how he was going to slay every fucking Frost Giant) ignoring Loki’s mention of it? I refuse!
And on the fandom side of things… the people who say Loki finally proved he loved Thor and was willing to die for him in IW drive me up a wall! First, did you not watch TDW? Even if you’re assuming Loki was only pretending (which doesn’t make sense but whatever) or planned to pretend to die, he couldn’t have predicted the black hole grenade that nearly took him out. He wasn’t protecting Jane for her sake. Second, Loki doesn’t die for Thor in IW. I’m sorry, but that’s the truth. Loki’s actions don’t prevent Thanos from killing Thor. He could have easily done so after finishing off Loki. Loki’s death in IW is meaningless. It’s just there to say “see how easily our new bad guy takes out the old one”.
pet peeve – when people call loki’s speech in iw character development
1. it’s not development when it comes out of nowhere
2. it’s not development if it was all resolved in the previous movies
i just hate how loki was used in the past two movies. they just needed him to get from point a. to point b. no explanations for his actions. i think this is what i personally dislike most about both ragnarok and infinity war. yeah there are important changes but i don’t feel them. i used to -get- loki. i don’t anymore. idk maybe it’s just me.
It’s not just you. And the reason you don’t get him anymore is because there’s nothing to get. He no longer resembles a person with a complex, comprehensible psychology. He’s a cardboard cutout of a (“reformed”) trickster.
Bless your sweet heart @mentallydatingahotcelebrity – Bless your posts! I feel exactly the same! I agree with you about Hela being Loki 2.0 – she’s not an original character. She had no business being in their family like that. All they did was give her Loki’s backstory. They took that away from him too. As if to say, “Loki’s nothing special, his pain doesn’t mean shit – look at Hela”. Same beef with Odin, same unfavorited child, same disappointment locked away for eternity. That’s not original! THAT’S LOKI!!
They even gave her his lines,(“kneel”) and his colours – Waititi said Loki couldn’t wear his colours in this because “there was already enough green in the movie” – that makes as much sense as saying “Sif couldn’t be in the movie because there were already enough female badasses”. It’s bullshit, they stripped Loki of everything, everything that makes Loki Loki. They brough on a third sibling who had no business being there. They wedged Hela between Loki and Thor. Anything and everything to take the attention off of Loki. Recycled his story and gave it to Hela. Then they kept repeating “Loki has become predictable” like it was their mantra. Of course he was predictable – they didn’t let him have anything else!!
Ragnarok was Taika Waititi’s vessel to parade around a big F U to Loki and his fans. He insinuated the worst about him, turned him into a court jester, he tore him to pieces, mocked and ridiculed him, and left him like a shell. That’s part of the reason we got what we got in Infinity War.
I don’t mean to be disrespectful to those who love this movie, but I am tired of being dumped on about this. Nobody’s going to think twice about offending those who are seriously hurting from this movie, but yet we are expected to tiptoe around those who are eating it up. If what you wanted was a weak, powerless, lazy, “twink” of a Loki, then congradulations. But for those of us who didn’t, let us hurt, let us grieve, let us rant, and please just let us be.
Omg, exactly!
I’ve hated so deeply this way to strip off from Loki anything that was his own. His powers, his sassiness, his mood, his colors (what kind of sloppy excuse is “There’s so much green in the movie”?? I’m so baffled every single time TW open his mouth…).
They give us a character who’s not our Loki. The Loki we know. The Loki we love. Thor Ragnarok forced in our throats this poor parody of Loki, with no progression…just a silly knife-thrower. For not to mention how sad would it be for Tom let be pushed back in order to make room to all the silliness.
Bring back our Loki. The God. The Trickster. The Smart one. The Brilliant. The Green and Gold God.
The God of Mischief.
Thank you! I thought it was just me. Must as I loved Thor 3 as a film, I hated the way it pretty much emasculated Loki. I feel that was deliberate, to pave the way for Infinity War (& subsequent plot device). Loki (& his fans) deserved better.
Thank you for putting my thoughts so succinctly @thranduilista
So I drew this little blue puppy Loki, even tho I can’t draw guys nor real people BUT this idea came to me~ and I simply had to. I know his ears aren’t pointy aand those markings are probably more scar-like and different, but I like him this way? (also lack of canon reference) (also sorry, muscular stomach later :’D)
“Loki’s death makes sense. His story was at an end. What would they have even done with him moving forward?”
I see this a lot, and it’s funny. It’s funny in the same way that people still believing that Loki is a villain is painfully comical. There’s such a lack of understanding for this character and so many people’s brains just seem to shut down completely when his future in the MCU is brought up.
So, what might we have gotten if the Russos hadn’t chosen to off him for cheap shock value?
An exploration of his heritage.
Now imagine if Captain America or Brace Banner had some incredibly powerful hidden ability that the MCU had not yet utilized or ever touched upon since it’s original discovery. You’d expect for Marvel to eventually explore this at some point, right? Then why is this somehow not the case with Loki’s undeveloped frost giant abilities?
Working with the Avengers.
As soon as I walked out of the theater in 2012, my mind was wondering what it would be like if Loki had been fighting alongside the Avengers rather than against them. Ragnarok had set up the potential for just that: Loki being forced to ally himself with his former enemies – Cue the snarky banter with Tony Stark, a magical team up with Scarlet Witch and Doctor Strange, surprising even himself when he instinctively shoves Clint out of the way of an oncoming attack… THIS would have brought his original arc full circle. If they really wanted to kill him off, then he should have died while protecting the planet he’d once attempted to rule. Though really, why does a villain need to die to be redeemed? You shouldn’t follow the norm just because it’s the norm. That’s just lazy writing.
Betraying Thanos.
It’s kind of Loki’s “thing”. He betrays people who have put their trust in him. Usually it’s the good guys who pay the price for his deceptions, but wouldn’t it have been interesting to see Loki’s talents turned upon the big bad? Giving Loki the role that Mephisto had in the comics (serving as an advisor to Thanos before betraying him) would have been ideal in this scenario. In no way is attacking Thanos head-on with a tiny knife intelligent. Loki should’ve been better than this.
Reconciliation with Thor.
There is no Thor without Loki. There is no Loki without Thor. Ragnarok gave us two brothers who were finally at peace with each other in the end and prepared to move forward together. An exploration of their relationship as siblings really trying to get along despite their differences would have been a breath of fresh air, to be honest. Thor is king, but every king needs an advisor. What better advisor to have than your own brother?
Mastering his own mind.
Hiddleston has claimed that something he would have liked to explore with Loki and see the character do if he’d survived Infinity War was to conquer his own mind, because Loki doesn’t know his own mind. He’s mentally unstable and plagued by feelings of self-disgust. Hiddleston has outright claimed that Loki deep down doesn’t really like himself. The character finally coming to terms with himself and discovering his place in the universe could have been a nice arc for the character to complete moving forward, perhaps fully settling into the role of anti-hero and accepting that his chaotic side can still be used for good rather than evil.
The Marvel cinematic universe’s first openly LGBTQ character.
The Russos claim that Marvel wants to work with stories that speak to where society is at today, and yet they still chose to kill one of their only two queer-coded characters. That’s not what today’s society wants. Why not make MCU history and give Loki a boyfriend? Hell, why not make cinematic history and let Loki be openly genderfluid? They could have done for LGBTQ people with Loki what was done for people of color with Black Panther. They could have given a marginalized group of people much needed representation. Instead, Loki, a bisexual and genderfluid character was killed to move along one of Marvel’s many cishet characters’ revenge arcs.
You make too much sense, which is how I know all your proposals are way beyond Marvel.
Loki is the Philosopher King 