re: ragnarok – can we talk about how Thor seems chill wearing casual clothes when he visits Earth but Loki always seems to dress in a suit? What do you make of that? Something about him needing to look authoritative and in control?

darklittlestories:

monitoroutside:

darklittlestories:

veliseraptor:

yes! we can talk about this!!!

I think it’s two things – first of all, I do think Loki just genuinely likes dressing up and looking nice. I mean, in Thor we see him change clothes a few times where others (if I recall) don’t, and in this movie he had at least two thematic costume changes (not including the black suit). it’s part of his Aesthetic, and Loki is very much about the Aesthetic.

(more seriously: he’s very appearance-conscious in basically every way and that includes, of course, clothing.)

so then on Earth – Thor can dress down, I think because Thor is more comfortable on Earth generally (where for Loki it’s not a place he particularly wants to be) and also because Thor doesn’t feel the same need Loki does to project a specific image – an image, like you say, of authority, control, and status. three things Loki is never going to want to relinquish.

and it does fit in with what we’ve seen Loki wear when he comes to Earth before, which. it definitely is a lot of style choice. (and it’s such a good style.)

Costume meta!!!! YESSSS.

Loki is always as *covered* and buttoned up as possible, with which I’m obsessed. (It shows up in a lot of fanfiction and meta, so it’s not just me.) It reflects his closed off wariness and it’s always a sort of emotional armor, I think.

He’s so, so insecure, our Loki, that he hides behind this armor and yes, it absolutely projects an air of authority and confidence that he needs desperately to perform. I could talk for HOURS about his costuming.

I felt actually punched in the face when the first trailers were released and we saw him *not* wearing his signature green and black and gold.

That outfit, though, is in the Grandmaster’s colors. It reinforces the “ownership” of people the Grandmaster assumes on Sakaar. It’s a very Sakaar ensemble and in context I love it. Loki’s ingratiated himself to the most powerful being and his schemes have schemes.

Thor, of course, is often seen half-naked, sleeveless, and in casual clothing on Midgard. He’s more open, egregious, and straightforward. The contrast is beautiful between the brothers’ attire.

Tagging my costume obsessed @philosopherking1887 @lunariagold and @raven-brings-light (I’m not sure if you’re this fixated on costumes, Raven, but I know you appreciate the Suit Porn.)

(Luna I keep forgetting to ask you what you thought of the costuming after seeing the movie!)

Amazing points about Loki’s attire.

Ah, well they are definitely not just my observations. I’m sure part of this comes from @philosopherking1887 (OMG her story The Abyss Gazes Also has an incredible cool explanation for Loki’s Avengers outfit) and there are SO many others who’ve written great observations about Loki’s clothing.

Thanks for the shout-out/rec, @darklittlestories ❤

Clearly I’m falling down on my costume-obsessing job, because I didn’t notice that somehow, between when Loki leaves Sakaar and when he shows up on Asgard, he changes into a costume with the same design but different colors (basically blue –> black and yellow –> green, with a few detail exceptions). Did he have a change of clothes stashed in a pocket dimension, or does he have the power to just change the color of his clothing, like the fairies in the Disney Sleeping Beauty fighting over whether the dress should be pink or blue…?

I’m not sure I agree that for Loki Earth is “not a place he particularly wants to be.” For silly reasons peculiar to me, I write Loki in fic as visiting Earth once or twice a century to check out the cultural development… but aside from that, it’s not unreasonable to think that before the first Thor movie, Loki actually knows more about Earth than Thor does. Thor is confused by pretty much everything, but when Loki comes down to tell Thor that Odin is dead, he’s impeccably and fashionably dressed in a suit, coat, and scarf. This doesn’t even seem to be necessary, because he keeps himself invisible to everyone except Thor (though maybe he was taking precautions in case the invisibility spell slipped?); it seems he dressed in Western Midgardian style because he felt like it. And then in The Avengers, after he’s spent a year off in the wilds of the universe but probably not on Earth (depending on what was going on in the tag scene to Thor), he puts on (or glamours himself?) another elegant Midgardian-style suit and scarf. So he seems to have acquired some Earth fashion sense prior to the events of Thor.

But yeah, I definitely agree that Loki’s clothing is armor in more ways than one. (More things he has in common with Tony Stark…) He hides himself behind it; he allows it to project the confidence, “authority, control, and status” that he doesn’t have, or doesn’t feel that he has, in his own right. It’s yet another layer of deception. And the fact that he changes costume so often is another sign of his character: he’s a bit of a chameleon, projecting a different face for different people or in different circumstances. He cares a lot about appearances, both for instrumental reasons and, I suspect along with OP, for their own sake. I think he and Oscar Wilde would agree about a lot of things…

Can we please talk about how “Odin” had tons girls all around him and was being fed grapes when Thor got to Asgard. That is the bases of so many Loki fics Hahaha bless you Taika

lokilickedme:

icouldkillyouwiththistray:

lokilickedme:

Mr Waititi totally reads fan fiction. He can’t deny it because we’ve seen the proof (not that I think for one second he would actually deny it).

Also on Sakaar – Loki was surrounded by ladies there as well when Thor arrived. Once again telling a charming story and basking in the admiration of beautiful women.

At first I thought it was a bit smallminded to portray him that way, as being surrounded only by females when he is canonically (and possibly MCU-ically as well) genderfluid – but since he’s wearing the countenance of a handsome male, it makes sense. And then I thought, so where are the men who would likewise find this gorgeous male specimen attractive? And in walks the Grandmaster to fill that role.

And boy did he lol

I think they did okay by Loki. But yeah, whoever wants to feed him grapes and worship him is fine by him, he really doesn’t care about the specifics…it’s the adoration he’s in love with 😉

@lokilickedme

Did you hear the last line of that story on Sakaar? “And then I let go…?” Or similar. I think he was telling his own story of what happened in the first Thor movie. 😀

I’m glad he’s getting it off his chest lol

Yep. His tone of voice and smug, charming grin seemed to indicate he was putting a light spin on it as well, like hey, listen to this brave and awesomely cool thing I did. I wasn’t about to be caught dead going back to those dipshits so rather than let my brother, who was sobbing like a baby, pull me back up…I just…let go.

He’s obviously still got deep seated issues linked to that event and the events that led up to it. Poor guy. But yeah, talking about it to strangers in a manner that evokes ooohs and ahhhhs from them is probably good for him. Anonymous therapy 😉

@icouldkillyouwiththistray

I’d really like to see that explored (or maybe explore it in fic myself) – I found it extremely strange that he was telling that story in a way that invited laughs.

curds-and-wheyface:

philosopherking1887:

curds-and-wheyface:

Odin, his wife and his children: A Theory.

[Thor: Ragnarok spoilers within]

I’ve seen some posts about how Loki and Hela look alike and people are all “Sorry Thor, who was adopted again?” and I get that it’s tongue in cheek but still, it got me itching to make this post.

Basically – I feel like we can all assume Hela was pre-Frigga, right?? She sure as hell ain’t Frigga’s.

Odin loved Frigga, she was so precious to him and she was so good, there’s just no way she’d have sat back and let Odin take their kid off to cruelly conquer all those realms as described by Hela.

So we can surely only assume that he was happily pillaging realms with his daughter at his side right up until the moment he laid eyes on beautiful, compassionate Frigga. And. You know. He’s just getting a bit old for all of this, isn’t he? He’d like to settle down with the love of a good woman.

So he pulls back a bit from the pillaging, he’s trying to woo this stunning creature who’s so kind-of-heart and caring that there’s no way she’ll accept him unless he becomes a more benevolent leader, more gentle, more a protector of realms than a destroyer of realms, and he finds that he totally cool with that. It’s doable.

Only his kid’s like “Oh, Hel no.”

All thirsty for blood and battle and victory, just as he raised her. But she doesn’t fit his aesthetic now that he’s trying to be A Good King TM.

So he puts his kid in a box and starts again. Slate wiped. Together Odin and his new wife have a golden-haired boy, takes after his mum. Odin’s going to do it right this time, he’s going to raise this boy up good and strong and kind.

Except he can’t quite forget his first born, who he did love despite her failure to fall inline with his changing idealogy, and so when he finds that little baby on Jotunheim, helpless and alone, and decides to extend his newfound kindness to him…

Well. Maybe it’s no real coincidence that the glamour he gave him looks just a little bit like his firstborn.

I’m not at all sure that Loki’s Aesir appearance is a glamor that Odin put on him, though. I favor the theory that he’s a born shapeshifter and his instinct was to take on a form that his rescuer would find appealing and that would motivate him to care for baby Loki. So why did he end up looking the way he did? 3 possibilities: (1) that’s just how his Jotun genotype translated into Aesir phenotype; (2) he transformed into what a biological son of Odin might have looked like; (3) he took on an appearance that resembled Odin’s lost child.

To be honest I’ve long dismissed the notion that the glamour was Loki’s because I assume that the chains on him at the start of TDW are designed to suppress his magic (what’s the point of them if they don’t?) and the glamour remains firmly in place.

The theory to which I allude is one according to which the shapeshifting between Jotun and Aesir is not a glamour at all, but something more fundamental that can’t be suppressed the way his illusion magic can. Maybe that seems too ad hoc for some people. But in any case I don’t think it makes sense to consider it a glamour, i.e., something merely appearance-based, because it seems that the reason Loki shifted partly back into a Frost Giant when another Frost Giant grabbed his arm on Jotunheim was to protect him from frostbite. If he was always a Jotun on the cellular level and only looked Aesir because of Odin’s glamour, his appearance wouldn’t have needed to change. Maybe it was Odin who transformed his body rather than his body changing on its own.

curds-and-wheyface:

Odin, his wife and his children: A Theory.

[Thor: Ragnarok spoilers within]

I’ve seen some posts about how Loki and Hela look alike and people are all “Sorry Thor, who was adopted again?” and I get that it’s tongue in cheek but still, it got me itching to make this post.

Basically – I feel like we can all assume Hela was pre-Frigga, right?? She sure as hell ain’t Frigga’s.

Odin loved Frigga, she was so precious to him and she was so good, there’s just no way she’d have sat back and let Odin take their kid off to cruelly conquer all those realms as described by Hela.

So we can surely only assume that he was happily pillaging realms with his daughter at his side right up until the moment he laid eyes on beautiful, compassionate Frigga. And. You know. He’s just getting a bit old for all of this, isn’t he? He’d like to settle down with the love of a good woman.

So he pulls back a bit from the pillaging, he’s trying to woo this stunning creature who’s so kind-of-heart and caring that there’s no way she’ll accept him unless he becomes a more benevolent leader, more gentle, more a protector of realms than a destroyer of realms, and he finds that he totally cool with that. It’s doable.

Only his kid’s like “Oh, Hel no.”

All thirsty for blood and battle and victory, just as he raised her. But she doesn’t fit his aesthetic now that he’s trying to be A Good King TM.

So he puts his kid in a box and starts again. Slate wiped. Together Odin and his new wife have a golden-haired boy, takes after his mum. Odin’s going to do it right this time, he’s going to raise this boy up good and strong and kind.

Except he can’t quite forget his first born, who he did love despite her failure to fall inline with his changing idealogy, and so when he finds that little baby on Jotunheim, helpless and alone, and decides to extend his newfound kindness to him…

Well. Maybe it’s no real coincidence that the glamour he gave him looks just a little bit like his firstborn.

I’m not at all sure that Loki’s Aesir appearance is a glamor that Odin put on him, though. I favor the theory that he’s a born shapeshifter and his instinct was to take on a form that his rescuer would find appealing and that would motivate him to care for baby Loki. So why did he end up looking the way he did? 3 possibilities: (1) that’s just how his Jotun genotype translated into Aesir phenotype; (2) he transformed into what a biological son of Odin might have looked like; (3) he took on an appearance that resembled Odin’s lost child.

enchantedbyhiddles:

@erinthevampire
replied to your post “Question about the after credit scene of Thor: Ragnarok…[[MOR] The…”

NO>>I REFUSE TO LISTEN TO THIS

I take an ethic course this semester and we had an interesting first lesson about different schools of ethics.

Kantian ethics, that are prevalent in Europe, value intention most. A person is good, when they had good intentions and do something for the right reasons, even if the outcome is horrible.

Consequentialist ethics are prevalent in anglophile (especially US) countries. There the intentions don’t matter at all and only the outcome of an action determines if a person acted in an ethically good way or not.

Explains a lot why people might determine if a person (in this case Thor) is acting good or bad.

OK, I have a lot to say about the original meta post… but the upshot is that I strongly disagree. One of many reasons being that in the MCU, Thor is pretty consistently the representative of Kantian/deontological (i.e., rule-based) ethics, while Odin and Loki lean more consequentialist. (P.S., on Earth I see Steve and Tony representing a similar contrast.) I always read “I’d rather be a good man than a great king” as “I’d rather keep my conscience clean than have to make decisions that trade lives for more lives.”

Now, it may be that now that Thor has accepted the mantle of kingship, he’s converted to consequentialism. But handing Loki over to Thanos is the kind of move that’s standardly used as an argument against consequentialism (or specifically utilitarianism). If Thor encountered Thanos or even heard of him on his travels, he must know how ruthless and cruel he is. He would know, or should be able to guess, what kind of horrific torture he would be condemning Loki to. Is that worth it for the mere possibility of protecting Asgard and Earth? Why should he trust Thanos to keep, or even make, a promise to leave them alone if Loki is turned over to him?

thorkizilla:

ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS ABOUT RAGNAROK:

“I am Thor, son of Odin.”

“Really? You don’t look like him.”

It’s true, he doesn’t look that much like Odin, but it puts in mind the theme of family resemblance and, hey, look who does look like a family member:

But Loki and Hela aren’t related by blood, yet they look like. Sure, sure, comic designs are being ported over to the MCU etc. But you know what’s confirmed by this movie:

Shapeshifter Loki.

Odin, having had to seal Hela away before she caused too much damage, still thinking of her and the loss of her, his firstborn, and not too much later, this happens:

SHAPESHIFTER LOKI, EVEN AS A BABY, PICKING UP ON ODIN’S THOUGHTS OF HELA AND SHIFTING TO A FORM THAT RESEMBLED HER.

Picking up on just what exactly would allow him to survive, to be taken in and cared for, to be loved and protected. And Odin, grieving over the loss of his firstborn, coming to love this child who looks so much like her, this new chance to do right with a child.

Ragnarok (and all of the Thor movies, really) is the story about how Thor is actually the redemption of Odin’s line, of course, that the terrible power both Hela and Thor wield is something they either do or don’t learn to do with compassion and good in their hearts.

But I love that this makes Loki just as important a part of the family as he can be. He has his mother’s magic, she would be proud of him, he is Odinson just as much as Thor is, Thor is closer to having his mother’s looks, Loki and Hela share looks, Thor and Hela share a power beyond almost anyone else we’ve seen, the web of connections and themes is everywhere and Loki is 100% fucking there with them all.

bifrostedflake:

Okay I have to get this out of my system. No spoilers, promise. I was watching Thor the Dark World the other day, prepping for Ragnarok and when Thor left Loki on Svartalfheim he was presumed to be dead. So I started thinking about all the theories that came about. Did he die, or did he fake it or plan it. Well, I think the answer could be very simple. Loki thought he was on his way his way out and had one moment of sincerity with Thor just before he passes out and takes a really nice well earned nap while his body healed.

Now the poor guard who discovered him, that guy, he thought Loki was dead too. Probably poked him with a spear and startled Loki awake. Startled, by the guard, Loki straight up slays the man on accident. That poor guard.

Oh shit he killed an innocent man and Thor is no where to be found.

Advantageous.

morethanprinceofcats:

meganphntmgrl:

liliaeth:

meganphntmgrl:

liliaeth:

meganphntmgrl:

liliaeth:

meganphntmgrl:

it’s incredible to me how gamora and nebula’s childhood together was so much worse than thor and loki’s and they were literally raised to hate each other but literally the moment nebula blurts out a vulnerable feeling gamora is like “…oh my god I’m so sorry” and next thing you know they’re saving each other and hugging and stuff and meanwhile, thor and loki,

Thor did the same to Loki though. Apologize I mean.And Loki responded by tring to murder him.

I’m not going to act like Thor’s apology in the first movie as he approached the Destroyer wasn’t coming from a good place, because it was, but there’s a very clear parallel between “I never wanted the throne! I only ever wanted to be your equal!” and “You just had to be better, and all I ever wanted was a sister!” and the fact that the latter caused an actual pause in the conflict and reevaluation of the situation and the former didn’t is telling. I absolutely get why Thor’s apology was basically “I don’t know what I even did to you, but I’m sorry”, but there was a tiny window of opportunity to go “wait, THAT’S what your problem is?” well after that, under very similar circumstances, that was bypassed.

Except that Loki didn’t want to be Thor’s equal. He got that when Thor was banished, and threw it away.

you know, you could make literally just as much of an argument that Nebula had already thrown away her chance at just being sisters in the first movie when she cut off her own hand to spite Gamora and escape and therefore didn’t really want it, but that’s dumb because she’s not a real person, she’s a fictional construct, and we kind of have to take her words at face value instead of remotely imposing an opposing view on them, and the same goes for Loki! amazing.

The difference is that Nebula was tortured thoughout her entire childhood, while Loki just found out he was adopted.

I don’t know how to tell you this, but trauma is trauma is trauma and bad parenting doesn’t have to involve cutting your children up. Loki was raised to fear and hate his own species, so it’s not just that he was adopted, it was finding out he’s literally something his father raised him to despise *as well as* Odin putting them in competition with each other too, in a much more mundane but, to use @morethanprinceofcats ’s term, insidious way than Thanos did with Nebula and Gamora, but it was still psychologically harmful.

The difference between the way Nebula’s arc goes and the way Loki’s does is 100% the result of the MCU needing Loki to stay a villain. Thor goes ‘I don’t know what I did to you, but I’m sorry about it’ and that’s as close as the story ever allows them to get to the kind of moment Nebula and Gamora have in GOTG 2. Thor isn’t responsible for Loki’s mental state or his crimes but there is no room ever allotted for him to try to understand where Loki’s coming from, either. Even if he went ‘Loki, I get it, I understand your feelings, our dad really screwed you over, but blowing up New York isn’t going to fix anything and is still wrong’ it would be an improvement over how it’s actually handled. Acknowledging that his feelings are justified doesn’t mean justifying his actions!

I love love love Nebula with a depth of affection I only rarely feel about fictional characters, but drawing this huge line between her and Loki is just that whole Tumblr thing where a woman can do whatever kind of evil shit onscreen and people will still unambiguously defend her as a Strong Cool Lady, *especially* if she has a traumatic excuse for it, but a man having the same situation is dismissed as just boring manpain. This isn’t even nonsensical inverted anti-male sexism, it’s just plain old everyday misogynistic sexism. The idea that women are just naturally purer of heart than men regardless of what they do and their sadness matters more is a patriarchal concept based in the idea that women are also more fragile than men. Nebula is not a better person than Loki, the narrative just allowed her an opportunity for healing and reconciliation where he got none- and I also feel like if he did, there would be people complaining about it on here.

I get that the Loki fandom of old was obnoxious but Christ, this backlash is no better and no more willing to engage with the problems in the source material.

i do not wanna write thor and loki discourse it is TWO THOUSAND AND SEVENTEEN, i s2g

So we’re introduced to Thor and Loki as babbies and this scene takes place, not incidentally or just as mere exposition, but to demonstrate the dynamic that psychologically sculpted the princelings:

Odin: [scary story about the frost giants and their savagery and the wars with them]
Loki as a child: [terrified of frost giants]
Thor as a child: When i am king, i’ll hunt the monsters down and slay them all, just as you did, father!
Odin: Both of you were born to be kings, but only one of you will be!
Loki as a child: [looks petrified and anxious]
Thor as a child: [looks a bit smug and very excited]

When Loki discovers he is a monster by birth, his immediate train of thought is: So this is why I would never be considered for heir! You would never put a FROST GIANT on the throne of Asgard!

And his immediate train of thought is to kill all of the frost giants and win their father’s approval – a literal 1:1 exists between what Loki does in the midst of a visible mental breakdown and what Thor boasted he would do when he was like, 9.

Killing Thor starts to enter into the picture because if Thor returns and ruins his plot he’ll never show their father, he’ll never prove he was any good!

I’m not excusing this, it’s both bonkers and, you know, to put it mildly, unethical. But this is literally 100% Odin’s shitty child-rearing and imperialistic Asgardian values rearing their ugly head. Like Thor started the movie wanting to start another bloody war with the frost giants himself. Loki is not alone in his arrogance, his militarism.

You know what else there’s a 1:1 between? That time in Avengers Loki stabs Thor in a non-fatal stabbing area with a teeny tiny knife and ruefully says “Sentiment” with tears in his eyes, and Nebula choking Gamora in her hand while ready to thrust a blade into her, and then throwing her aside because she can’t bring herself to kill her.

I am not saying that Thor is a bad person for giving up on Loki after this. I’m just saying it’s a clear executive mandate that he do so because it would take only the barest adjustment in his attitude to get him to reach out to Loki, and there’s honestly no reason to believe that if somebody did – genuinely did – empathize with him and validate his feelings about Odin’s wrongdoings, he wouldn’t respond favorably – or at least start to respond favorably, like Nebula does, without committing to anything.

Nebula and Gamora have committed literally all of the same crimes. The only thing Nebula did that Gamora didn’t do was stick with Ronan after Gamora left, and she had no choice in that. Her first words to Gamora when she meets her in GOTG2 are, inexactly, “You ran off with the stone and abandoned me [to Ronan and Thanos] without looking back, and yet here you stand a hero.” This is probably the best moment of holding-heroic-characters-to-some-semblance-of-an-ethical-standard in the entire MCU because that is literally eactly what Gamora did. She wasn’t even assigned to the mission of getting the Infinity Stone; Nebula was, and Gamora immediately suggested Nebula wasn’t good enough to do it (in an environment where, clearly, Nebula not being as good as Gamora was literally grounds for having her mutilated!) and replaced her.

She didn’t offer to go with her by saying it was too important to send one of them. She didn’t ask Nebula to come leave with her. And it’s clear from GOTG that if she had, Nebula would have done so.

Nebula stayed with Ronan because she had nowhere else to go. She stays with him after he acquires the stone for similarly clear reasons.

Nebula: After Xandar, you’re going to kill my father?
Ronan: You dare to oppose me?
Nebula: You see what he has turned me into. If you kill him, I will help you destroy a thousand planets.

No fucking wonder homegirl doesn’t leap on board when Gamora asks her to help – now. After ditching her to sell the orb and get as far away as possible. After leaving her with Ronan and Thanos all by herself. No one has ever cared about Nebula otherwise. No one has ever reached out to her except as an afterthought.

It would be perfectly justified, after Nebula tried to kill her (literally; she would be dead if not for Peter) and all of fucking Xandar (even though Nebula actually ditched Ronan before he made it to ground), for Gamora to go with her Plan A and deliver her sister’s ass to Xandar for a bounty. But she doesn’t, because she realizes Nebula and she were in Thanos’ fucked up web of misery together, and Nebula has good reason to hate her.

By comparison, when Thor, knowing his brother had some kind of a legitimate breakdown that made him do unthinkable things, catches up to Loki again, he chides him, “Do you remember none [of our childhood together]?” and tells him all of his problems with Thor are imagined (and they’re not, by the way! They are certainly exaggerated, but they are not in his head), then supposes that the only reason Loki wants to take over Midgard is to hurt Thor, personally. There’s no effort made to empathize with him, there’s no condemnation of Odin’s keeping the secret of his being a frost giant secret; there’s no telling him that he doesn’t mind, specifically, Loki’s being a frost giant. (This has SCARCELY been brought up in the MCU and I’m so pissed off. What IS continuity, Thor franchise??) I’m not saying Thor is obligated to do this! I’m just saying, seeing how Nebula and Gamora’s relationship plays out highlights that Thor doesn’t do it.

There is just not enough of a distinction between their situations, Nebula trying to kill Gamora and Gamora realizing Thanos and his favoritism is responsible for their interpersonal problems and trying to atone for her part in that favoritism, and Loki trying to kill Thor and Thor never questioning their father, ever, and writing Loki off, to say that Loki is just too evil for a comparison to be made. Nebula and Gamora are two of the best and bloodiest assassins in the galaxy and by the time they make up Nebula happily tried to kill her and left Yondu, Rocket and even baby Groot in the jaws of death, so you better not argue that Gamora owed her any more than Thor owes Loki.

Footnote: I didn’t even touch on Thanos’ role in Avengers as the one who sent Loki to Midgard to get an Infinity Stone for him in the first place (Avengers and GOTG have the literal same plot; GOTG does it better). I didn’t mention that Thanos explicitly had Loki do this under the threat of torture – Thanos, who tortured Nebula, Gamora and their siblings to make them better soldiers, out of benevolence, threatened to torture Loki totally malevolently if he failed – or that Loki shows up in Avengers looking and acting like the reanimated cat in Herbert West: Reanimator, twitchy, half-dead and ready to climb every wall in the building and steal some Infinity Stones, and he’s all out of walls. The narrative comparison between Nebula and Loki is not something Megan or I invented out of whole cloth, it’s right there. But the suits want Loki to be a bad guy, and meanwhile James Gunn is apparently writing this from space itself and that’s why his space scenes are so realistic. That’s the difference.

“I get that the Loki fandom of old was obnoxious but Christ, this backlash is no better and no more willing to engage with the problems in the source material.”

^ This is my feelings basically all the time.

lokislonelylady:

inappropriatefangirlneeds:

The saddest part abut the red cape is that this is all about Thor again. This is not about Loki. He could imagine a scenario where Sif or Fandral pat his shoulder for slaying their enemies in battle with his illusions or anything else that is about appreciating what and who he is but it´s not. It ´s about Thor´s triumph. He is raising the hammer while he could present any of his own talents. We know he has enough of them but he thinks, and has learned that they won´t be appreciated. It´s not about himself and what he could have archived it´s about Thor. His hammer, his throne, his friends. No one in the audience is cheering for anything “Loki” they are cheering for Thor. Loki only slipped into his clothes. His whole time living there made him think that he does not stand a chance being himself, not in Asgard and not in front of his father. Being Loki has just brought him behind bars, pretending he is like Thor takes pieces of him into freedom again. He gives people what they want and that is Thor, not him. Loki was never enough. Loki is not enough, not even in his own day dreams.

👑

that is the tragedy of loki.

Thor: Ragnarok Movie Clip – Get Help (2017) | Movieclips Coming Soon

thortunes:

I’m gonna deconstruct this scene because I’ve been thinking about it ALL DAY and what the hell, I’ve got time. This clip demonstrates what I love most about Taika Waititi’s filmmaking and it shows off Chris and Tom’s chemistry in the fiercest way. It’s hilarious, sweet, bittersweet, surprising, and poignant.

1) “Loki, I thought the world of you.”

Even though there was an instinctive part of me that screamed, “OK, WELL, YOUR ACTIONS TOLD A DIFFERENT STORY, THOR” due to residual bitterness over what a dickbag Thor was in the first film, I’m 1,000% here for this line. I’m proud of how much Thor has matured, thrilled that these two are actually talking to each other, and happy that Loki’s hearing something he’s probably always wanted/needed to hear even though it’s bittersweet because Thor’s using the past tense.

Tom’s reaction here is SO GOOD. Just the tiniest shift in his eyebrows to indicate that Thor has Loki’s attention and he’s fucking locked in and hanging on to every word.

2) “I thought we were gonna fight side by side forever, but at the end of the day you’re you and I’m me.”

I know there was a minor (?) uproar over Chris’ comments that Thor will be “indifferent” to Loki in Ragnarok, but this scene seems to suggest a kind of acceptance rather than indifference. Maybe for the first time, Thor truly seems to have accepted that he and Loki are fundamentally different beings–and by extension, he’s accepting Loki’s nature. Yes, part of that acceptance means letting go and moving on (note: I did not say giving up) and that’s sad, but realistic I think. How many fakeout deaths and stabbings can a person be expected to withstand? “You’re you” is a significant break in pattern for Thor and Loki appears genuinely taken aback by it.

“You’re you” is a huge deal because to me, the brothers’ central conflict has always boiled down to the fact that Loki isn’t Thor (thanks, Odin, for exacerbating this tension). For Loki, that fact is a source of self-loathing and resentment, something that he can act out against and, as Tom has often said, define himself in opposition to.

By the same token I think it’s become clearer that what Loki thinks of Thor matters to Thor. For an older sibling, having a younger sibling who looks up to you and wants to be like you is perhaps one of the biggest indicators that you’re a good–dare I say worthy–person. Ever since Loki let go of Gungnir Thor has struggled to make sense of Loki’s rejection, to define himself without the security of having his brother by his side. With that in mind I’ve always seen Thor’s past attempts to bring Loki back to the “good” side as heartfelt and genuine, but also somewhat ego-driven and shortsighted.

Cut to now. By acknowledging that he and Loki are each their own person, Thor’s relieving Loki of the pressure and expectation of being anyone other than himself. In a way, that’s a gift, but it’s also terribly sad because it’s accompanied by loss for both of them. Which brings me to:

3) “I dunno, maybe there’s still good in you but let’s be honest: our paths diverged a long time ago.”

It’s in this moment that Loki really seems to realize where this conversation is headed. And he doesn’t like it.

We know Loki lives to test Thor. It’s his (super dysfunctional and unhealthy) way of making sure Thor still cares about him. In The Dark World, Loki tests Thor’s assertions that he doesn’t trust him and has lost hope for him by … getting himself impaled. Yeah, “dying” was also his “get out of jail free, usurp the throne” card, but it’s not insignificant that he calls Thor’s bluff in the process.

4) “Yeah. It’s probably for the best that we never see each other again.”

Speaking of calling Thor’s bluff, I think Loki–because he’s a smart little fucker–says this in order to get ahead of the conversation. He knows what’s coming, so he pulls the classic “I’ll reject you before you reject me” move. But I don’t think he means it. It’s more likely that he’s trying to balance the scales so he’s not on the utter losing side of this conversation. And honestly? Deep down I doubt he can bear to hear Thor say it and by proactively agreeing with Thor he’s holding out hope that Thor will pull a “JK!” and change his mind.

5) “It’s what you always wanted.”

OMG THOR HAS GOTTEN SO SMART. I mean, I guess it’s within the realm of possibility that Thor is still really dumb about Loki’s feelings/motivations, but personally it’s more fun and satisfying to think he sees Loki’s test and raises him an even bigger one.

Loki’s face is so sad-funny. His plan backfired, he’s panicking a little, but he’s got to save face and play it cool, and he’s also legit sad because he knows this outcome is the culmination of his past actions and he did his part in paving this road for both of them. And at the end of the day he’s still the younger brother who doesn’t want to appear weak, so he’s doing his best to match Thor’s tone and attitude.

The moment when Loki lifts his chin and gives a little nod is a dead giveaway; never seeing Thor again is the opposite of what he wants, but he’s prepared to accept that it’s too late for anything else. It’s SO far from an apology, but for Loki it’s about the most mature thing we’ve seen him do.

The fact that for once they’re not arguing with each other is what made me tear up. It’s like they both know they should’ve had this conversation years ago, when it could have made all the difference, but at the same time they know that moment has passed. THIS IS FUCKING TRAGIC.

(If I wrote this movie, this would be the moment that they both dissolve into tears, fall on the floor, and cry-hug it out, which is why I write poetry and not screenplays.)

6) “Hey, let’s do Get Help.”

This was the beginning of the death of me, I will never be the same. I laughed so hard. On the surface this whole exchange may seem like just a gag–and it IS funny as hell–but I feel like it’s working on so many levels and reveals something deeper about Thor and Loki’s bond.

First of all, if you’re me, everything that preceded this moment was really uncomfortable and sad and almost unbearable to witness so I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that Thor and Loki were feeling some of that too.

What I love about this transition is that Thor immediately cuts through the tension, probably to put both of them at ease and bring them back into the more familiar territory of their rapid-fire banter. Loki seems a bit surprised but relieved.

IMO, this brief exchange of dialogue does more to convey Loki and Thor’s bond and establish their history than anything we’ve been shown in the previous films (not counting that deleted scene from the first movie). I thought it was really poignant to see them revert to/rely upon something from their distant past. You can tell this is an argument they’ve had a zillion times before. You can tell from the stunt itself that it’s something they’ve had many opportunities to perfect.

Even though Loki is reluctant to participate, he does, because he still craves inclusion and acceptance. Even though Thor is no longer quite as overbearing and arrogant as he once was, he regresses into that role so that he can get his younger brother back just for a moment. It’s like they’re consoling themselves without admitting that they want to be consoled. And yeah, on a practical note they also need to find a way off of Sakaar.

In conclusion, they’ve both just conceded that their relationship has reached an impasse with no real way forward, yet in the immediate aftermath of this supposed acceptance they choose to revert to an older dynamic that reflects presumably happier times. They don’t want to quit each other. This is fine. It’s fine. I’m not crying. I love them. The end.

I’m deep in my feels right now and probably projecting a lot (HI, HELLO, I HAVE A TROUBLED YOUNGER BROTHER, I’VE NEVER USED HIM AS A PROJECTILE BUT I UNDERSTAND THE IMPULSE), but even without having seen this scene in the full context of the film, it’s my favorite Thor/Loki moment to date. It’s what I’ve always wanted. It actually brings “We were raised together, we played together, we fought together” to life in a meaningful way, whereas in The Avengers I felt like those were just words.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading!

Thor: Ragnarok Movie Clip – Get Help (2017) | Movieclips Coming Soon