…my biggest fear about Avengers 4 isn’t that Loki won’t come back: it’s the MCU, it’s Loki, he won’t stay dead for long. No, my biggest fear is that he’ll come back and that Thor, after all that happened in Infinity War – things that should finally have taught him humility and empathy and changed him for the better – STILL will treat his own brother like his inferior (because apparently the writers think saying Thor loves Loki is enough). And that this will be portrayed as a “happy ending” and something Loki should be content with, even thankful for, because who wants a brother who respects them anyway.
How the heck am I gonna be satisfied with that for either of them?!
I really hope – no, I beg – that anyone messaging Marvel about bringing Loki back would do him (and me) a favor and also drop them a line about Thor’s treatment of him, just to let them know we expect better. ‘Cause honestly, if it continues like so far, he’s probably no worse off dead.
My fear is Loki being resurrected by Thor’s noble and fearless actions, this making all about Thor… again. Loki’s death was about Thor, now Loki’s life could be about Thor as well, this confiding Loki’s status as a a useless twink / fridge wife
That’s exactly my fear too. That’s why I hope those theories about Thor going to Hel / Vallhalla to resurrect Loki don’t pan out, because then it will only be about Thor’s noble act and not about Loki himself. What I’d like to see is Loki to come back by his own incredible will and wits, somehow, like he’s always done. He died for Thor (again) now can’t his life be about himself?
“…now can’t his life be about himself?”
This!!
To your concerns, @shine-of-asgard: I haven’t read the Kid Loki or Agent of Asgard comics (yet…), but I get the sense that even though Thor was responsible for bringing Loki back, Loki has nonetheless been able to lead his own life – intertwined with Thor’s, of course, but not beholden to him. They might want to do something like that… but if Tom Hiddleston comes back in cameos as “Old Loki,” it wouldn’t have the same significance it does in the comics (I gather), because the MCU “Old Loki” was never actually evil. Even at his worst, in Thor and The Avengers, there were extenuating circumstances; he wasn’t in his right mind, and his intentions weren’t entirely malicious. I’m afraid that the way they’ll try to make it work is to frame Old Loki the way Ragnarok did, as not *evil* precisely – because even that would be giving him more credit for competence and motivational complexity/coherence than Ragnarok wanted to – but as *bad*, this cartoon trickster who betrays people for shits and giggles, or because it’s “in his nature” and he “just can’t help himself.”
Alternatively, though, Old Loki could just represent his envy and resentment against Thor and the pain and grievances he can’t move past, while Kid or Teen Loki is trying to live a new life free of all that baggage. That might be compelling, and would be worthy of Tom Hiddleston.
If they are going to reincarnate Loki with a new young actor… I wish Old Loki’s sacrifice had been more significant. I wish he had either had a real reconciliation of Thor, with an acknowledgment of fault on both sides and a resolve from both to do better, or that he had remained Thor’s enemy; the false reconciliation and “redemption” as submission to Thor’s will, and then the pointless shock-value death that didn’t even give much of a payoff to his connection with Thanos (what the hell happened, Marvel?!), are just such a disappointing end to his character arc. This is how your best, most complex and interesting character goes out, not with a bang but a whimper.
I think the majority of us agree with the fact that Loki, one of the most complex and acclaimed MCU characters, deserved a better ending to his redemption arc. I have decided to write this post in order to spread some hope that this is not the last we’ve seen of the God of Mischief.
First of all, his death was not convincing nor fitting for a character that is known for dying and coming back in almost every movie he is in (and don’t forget about the comic books). If the directors intended to make his death believable, they should have made him use his powers, try to trick Thanos with his illusions or attempt to fake his own death again and ultimately fail. He should have had a good plan only for it to be disrupted by Thanos and the fact that he doesn’t even seem to try makes me think either Loki is not dead or he let Thanos kill him on purpose.
It’s interesting that neither Loki nor Doctor Strange seem to use the infinity stones they own against Thanos. Even Thanos acknowledges that Strange doesn’t “use his greatest weapon”. But we know that Strange made use of the time stone to see into the future and realised that he (and half the universe) had to die in order to win in the end (presumably). Maybe Loki knew this as well. Maybe his death was also necessary in order to reach that outcome and that’s why he let Thanos kill him.
“The Tesseract can show visions of the future, which may or may not come true. The people who have seen this power are the Red Skull, Eric Selvig, and Hawkeye […]” [source] Loki seemed to be looking at the tesseract very intently before saying “I assure you, brother, the sun will shine on us again” to Thor. The tesseract could have shown him a vision of a future in which Thanos is defeated and Loki’s brought back to life somehow, hence the optimism of his statement. Also, I’m 100% sure this line is foreshadowing, it’s too cryptic and striking.
Also, it’s odd that Loki just drops the tesseract on the floor and doesn’t even try to pick it up while Thanos is distracted, considering he seemed so unwilling to give it away only a moment before. I guess he was too busy doing… whatever it is he was doing while Thanos was beating the crap out of the Hulk and killing Heimdall. Because, really, where was he? If the Russos’ intention was to make us believe Loki was out of options and would finally meet his definitive end, it was not a good idea to have the audience lose sight of him for 4 whole minutes, especially since he’s a character who has faked his own death before and whose most distinctive traits are being mischievous and unpredictable.
When being asked about Loki’s death at Ace Con 2018, Tom Hiddleston said “I’ve known about that scene for two years. I met with Marvel in May 2016, and they were actually telling me the story of Ragnarok with concept arts and images. […] My whole journey through making Thor: Ragnarok I knew this was coming” [source] Tom knew about his Infinity War scene back in 2016 and yet he said this about Loki on September 2017: “He’s cunning and transformative and changeable and will do everything he can to survive. He’s the trickster. He’s the God of mischief.” [source]
Tom Hiddleston also had a reassuring message for fans who were worried about Loki before Infinity War was released: “Loki is the God of Mischief, the Lord of Misrule, an Agent of Chaos. Chaos isn’t something that’s threatening to Loki and everything’s fine.” [source]
Even Loki himself reminded us who he was right before being ‘killed’ by Thanos. “I, Loki, prince of Asgard, Odinson, the rightful king of Jotunheim, God of Mischief […]”. His last words “you will never be a god” also point out the fact that he is a god (and Thanos is not). This line sounds too cryptic as well, it’s almost like Loki is telling Thanos “I know something you don’t”.
It is also known some members of the cast filmed at least one scene in Durham Cathedral (2017), and Tom Hiddleston was supposedly among them. Although he has not been photographed, different people claimed to have spotted him on the set.
The scene(s) shot in the cathedral never made it into Infinity War. However, it is unclear whether this footage was shot for Avengers 4. It’s important to remember that this location was also used to film Thor’s vision in Age of Ultron, a vision which seemingly represented Hel. We also know that Loki’s death in Thor: The Dark World was originally intended to be real, although not definitive, as Thor was supposed to travel to Hel and retrieve Loki in Thor: Ragnarok. [source] Perhaps this idea has not been fully discarded, which would be a plausible explanation as to why Chris, Tessa and Tom were spotted filming in Durham. It could be assumed that Loki is truly dead this time, but not for good: Thor would go to Hel in order to bring him back from the dead, hopefully in Avengers 4, or in another Thor movie. You can read more about this on this Reddit thread.
It’s actually a fact that Loki will appear in the next Avengers movie, as these leaked photos of the A4 set confirm.
These photos suggest that Avengers 4 will recreate the Battle of New York. The widespread assumption that Loki’s presence in the pictures indicates a flashback is wrong, as we can see Scott and an older Tony in the company of Captain America, who is wearing his old costume (meaning he is Steve’s past self). Thor and Loki are also dressed as in the battle of New York and Loki is gagged. He has something that looks like the tesseract in his hand and this doesn’t add up to the events of the first Avengers movie, which could mean that time travel is involved. This alone doesn’t prove that Loki is alive in the current timeline, but maybe his death can be reversed if the Avengers alter the past. In any case, at least we can be sure that his past self will play a role in the movie.
Kevin Feige tweeted this letter dedicated to the fans after Infinity War was released. We can see Thanos’ gauntlet as well as a Loki keychain in the picture, next to the letter, which seems suspicious since Loki’s role in IW was pretty limited.
When it comes to Kevin Feige, it is also important to point out that he has barely spoken about Loki’s death. In fact, when asked specifically about Loki, he only said that the scene was emotional, as were some other scenes in the movie [source]. He seemed to avoid answering the question by beating about the bush and repeating the same thing over again. One would think that if this were Loki’s final scene, Feige would have something more to say, considering that Loki is a fan favorite and that Feige himself always seemed to appreciate the character.
In addition, Jeremy Conrad seems to believe Loki could come back and has hinted he will on several occasions. For those who don’t know who this man is, he’s a journalist and the founder of MCU Cosmic and he has proven himself to be a quite reliable source when it comes to information regarding the MCU. This is what he said on the matter at hand:
Then, he shared the link to a brief article about the possibility of Loki being brought back to life through time travel. You can read it here.
Two months later, this was Jeremy Conrad’s response when someone suggested Tom Hiddleston should be the next James Bond:
He basically hinted that Tom Hiddleston’s Loki is not over yet though when some users asked him to elaborate he didn’t answer. We all know that Avengers 4 is in post-production by now and this movie definitely won’t keep Tom busy so we can assume Jeremy Conrad is referring to the possibility of Loki being in other MCU movies yet to be announced.
Many of you may not know this but some weeks ago a man who claimed to have worked at Tom Hiddleston’s house tweeted that Tom has signed up for 4 more Marvel movies:
We should take this with a grain of salt but I personally think he might be telling the truth. Though I’ve chosen to hide his username because of the negative response he got for this tweet, this is not just an anonymous person hiding behind a computer screen, but someone who has personal information on his twitter profile, such as pictures, location, occupation (he is indeed a plumber and works in the UK) and he deleted the tweet once it started to gain some attention. He said he only wanted to share the good news but regretted tweeting about it because of the way Loki fans had reacted (some were calling him a liar). However, he insisted that he wasn’t lying and that we would see Loki in more movies. To be honest, I was really skeptical about this whole plumber thing at first but a few days after this, Jeremy Conrad insinuated that Tom Hiddleston won’t be James Bond because that would be incompatible with his role as Loki, so, even though 4 more films sound too good to be true, I think something might be going on with Tom’s contract.
At this point, it seems there is more evidence of Loki coming back than being permanently dead but, of course, nothing is confirmed yet. I’ve made a list of links just in case you want to read more theories about Loki’s death:
My credence that Loki will come back in A4 in any context other than time travel to 2012 is still about 0.3. Which means I don’t believe it. But I’m not completely convinced he won’t. I’m keeping my credence below 0.5 until the movie is out.
I’ve read some spoilers going around for IW2 and let me tell you: they sound both credible and barf-worthy. If you think you hated what the Russo did with Loki in IW1 believe me, the spoilers for the future are worse.
First of all, i’d like to say sorry for upsetting anyone. I was upset myself, still am. The link is under, read at your own discretion. I found the info credible as it’s in line with some other spoilers posted before by people who were somewhat credible about IW1. It has bits about many characters and (for the first time) stuff about Loki in IW2 that is in accord to the photos taken during filming.
“Later, Loki reconvenes with Thanos and explains they have uncovered his machination to collect the stones, so he acts sooner”???
WTF?! Why would he do that? Is that supposed to be while Loki is still on Earth and corresponding occasionally with the Other, before the Avengers defeat him? Or does he do this when he’s back on Asgard? If the latter, why the fuck would he still be helping Thanos??
I already thought Markus & McFeely were dimwitted hacks, but honestly… they have a consistent habit of throwing character out the window for the sake of plot machinations and/or action setpieces.
I did a quick Google search to answer my question about information sources and this is what I found. And I have to say… this is the most promising thing I have seen or heard regarding Loki’s fate in IW/A4. Tony going back in time to spring Loki from captivity in The Avengers? I would definitely be here for that.
I also found this story about reports that Aaron Taylor-Johnson, who plays Pietro Maximoff, had been seen on the set of Avengers 4.
What I’m not sure about is whether this has any consequences for their future survival past the point when, in the original timeline, they died. Whoever is doing the time travel shenanigans might be operating according to some kind of “least disturbance” principle – retrieving the Infinity Stones so that Thanos can’t get them, but otherwise leaving things the way they were.
This also doesn’t necessarily mean that Loki will have a significant role in A4, and based on some of the obnoxious things the Russos have said, I still don’t have a lot of hope that he will. He might just have a couple of cameos from the past while our heroes work around him to get/destroy the Infinity Stones; I’m still not at all confident that the writers or directors care enough about giving Loki a satisfying narrative arc to give him any agency in the effort to defeat Thanos, despite the fact that he clearly has some previous experience with Thanos and personal reasons to want to take him down. And I will still be pretty pissed if he’s basically just background scenery for other people’s heroics and if his IW death is still the end of his story.
1. Tom Hiddleston signed a six film deal, so we can expect him to be in Avengers 4.
2. Loki is known as a ‘Silvertongue’, so his choice of words is always extremely important. So, when he says “undying fidelity”. I think this is an allusion to the fact that he is not dead.
3. Further on from the ‘Silvertongue’ point, Loki says “I promise you, brother, the sun will shine on us again”. This seems too far out of place to be a coincidence. I think Loki is trying to subtly tell Thor that he has a trick up his sleeve that may end up saving them.
4. Loki has already feigned death so many times, is it really so far fetched to think he has done it again?
5. He disappeared from the scene for several minutes and we have no idea what he was doing during that time. He then reappears super cocky and arrogant which is a direct contrast to how terrified he’d been a few minutes prior. This seems to suggest that perhaps he is using an illusion of some sort.
6. He emphasizes the fact that he is a “God of Mischief”, thus perhaps hinting to Thor that he is about to perform a trick, or to allude to the audience that all is not as it seems.
7. Loki did not change into his Jotun form after he died. This seems odd because his Aesir form is an illusion, so it should have disappeared when he died. Furthermore, there are a couple of mentions of Loki being “the rightful King of Jotunheim” and “not Asgardian”, which may be an attempt to draw the audience’s attention to this fact.
8. It was very uncharacteristic of Loki to act so impulsive by stabbing Thanos with a small dagger. It seems to me that the attack was more of a distraction than a real attack. The Loki we know would have attempted to use some sort of illusion or trick in order to attack Thanos and mean it.
9. Tom Hiddleston mentions in a recent interview that “Chaos isn’t something that’s threatening to Loki” and that “Everything is fine”. This seems to suggest that Loki is alright, and hasn’t actually died.
10. Loki’s choice of last words, “You will never be a god”, introduces the idea that maybe Loki has survived due to the fact that he’s a God, and cannot be killed so easily.
11. If the Russo brothers wanted to make Loki’s death truly believable, they would have had Loki using his illusions, and Thanos seeing straight through them and then killing him. The fact that none of Loki’s powers were used at all, makes it seem that he has perhaps feigned death.
12. Finally, I refuse to believe that Thor’s last words to Loki are “You really are the worst brother”, it just seems so wrong to me after all they’ve been through.
I think he’s really literally dead this time, but knows he’ll be brought back some way or another. Like Strange, he knows the only way they can win is if they make sacrifices now. But he promises Thor they will be together again, somehow, and that’s too strong a statement to be arbitrary.
I’d definitely like to believe in all of these reasons, but my pessimistic side suspects that we, as Loki’s fans, are grasping at straws. Many of these points, especially in combination, seem compelling, but I’ve got some reasons not to get too optimistic…
1. The number of films named in an actor’s contract is binding on the actor, but not the studio. He can’t say no if they want him in 6 films, but they don’t have to use all 6.
2, 3, 8, and 11 all rest on the presupposition that the writers, directors, producers, etc. care about making Loki’s characterization consistent and plausible. We saw what happened with Thor: Ragnarok, which seems to indicate that the higher-ups at Marvel do not care about that, or about making Loki appear competent. It’s fairly clear to me that the screenwriters, Markus & McFeely, and the Russos, who all got their start at Marvel working on the Captain America movies, care far more about Cap and his friends than about anyone else, and beyond that care more about the Avengers than about formerly villainous side characters like Loki. Markus & McFeely wrote the screenplay for Thor: The Dark World; it was faring poorly with test audiences, so Marvel brought in Joss Whedon as a script doctor. Whedon’s diagnosis was, in effect, “This movie has a fever, and the only prescription is more Loki.” He wrote at least the shapeshifting scene and the bro-boat scene; Loki’s trial at the beginning was also a late addition based on a tie-in comic. The point I’m trying to make is that Markus & McFeely did not consider Loki all that important and gave him a much smaller role in the movie than he eventually ended up playing, so I don’t expect them to place that much importance on Loki’s character coherence or narrative arc now, either.
4. This point can cut both ways. A lot of people have been pointing to the “no resurrections” line and noting that Loki dying but not really is getting to be an old trick.
7. There’s a fair amount of disagreement among fans about whether Loki’s Aesir form is an illusion/glamour or whether he’s actually a shapeshifter who can physically inhabit either form. For a variety of reasons (which I won’t list here), I favor the latter theory. I also don’t think that the darkening of his face during his “death” scene in TDW had anything to do with his Jotun nature; I think it probably had something to do with Kurse’s blood being on the blade he was stabbed with.
9. Tom was probably bullshitting because he was asked to “reassure” his fans. I wouldn’t take it all that seriously. And, you know, Loki lies, even if Tom usually doesn’t.
12. I don’t think Markus & McFeely and the Russos care about Thor and Loki’s relationship any more than they do about Loki as a character… and since Thor was saying crap like that all throughout Ragnarok, there’s something kind of fitting about it.
All that said, I really, really want to believe that you’re right.
I’m really hoping there’s a good payoff for all of this pain. Even Game of Thrones eventually gives the audience a sense of justice for every atrocity committed.
I heard a rumor that A4 is going to be sort of a play on Return of the King, with Captain America / Iron Man playing Frodo and Sam and Thor playing Aragorn. And if that’s the case…..imagine the undead forces of Asgard smacking Thanos down into Hel. That would be amazing.
And then Loki comes back and he and Thor get married like at the end of ROTK the end
FYI: Loki and Frigga are both confirmed for a4. Which is……INTERESTING.
WAIT, WHAT??? Where did you read that? Please send link(s)!
Thank you, Tom, for reminding us of Loki’s emotional complexity. And pointing out that the fact that he was lied to all his life and found out a world-shattering truth in an abrupt, traumatic fashion does still make a difference in the way he behaves.
so……he might not die? that’s all i care about
Not in the first 5 minutes – that seems assured, given how much press Tom has been doing. In the film? Everyone is being extremely uninformative, and I think I favor the theory that just about everyone is going to die in IW and Doctor Strange is going to have to pull some shit with the Time Stone to save the world (and the Avengers). So even if Loki dies in IW, he might still show up in Avengers 4. I kind of suspect that, unlike many of our heroes, he will not survive Avengers 4. But who knows?
Loki is the Philosopher King 