philosopherking1887:

Most of the shit that Thorki shippers get from antis is about the incest, but every once in a while you also get people saying that villain/protagonist ships are inherently abusive, which is just stupid enough to be funny. Here, in addition to my incestuous “frenemies with benefits” primary ship, are some other villain/protag pairs I ship:

• Charles Xavier x Erik Lehnsherr (“Cherik”), X-Men movies
• Harry Potter x Draco Malfoy (“Drarry”), Harry Potter
• Tom Riddle x Minerva McGonagall, Harry Potter books. I’m not shitting you, I wrote a (very chaste) fic about this in middle school.
• Steve Rogers x Tony Stark (Stevetony, Stony, or Superhusbands), MCU – which is villain/protag to hear some of the Team Cap people talk about it…
• Alexander Hamilton x Aaron Burr, Hamilton the musical by Lin-Manuel Miranda, Burr the novel by Gore Vidal, and also the biography by Ron Chernow (which I read in high school in 2005, tyvm). (Is there a ship name for this? Hamilburr? That’s awful. Burrmilton? That’s worse.)
• Jesus x Judas, Jesus Christ Superstar… and also maybe the Bible. (I’m also having trouble with a ship name for this – their names are too similar. Jusus is just… no. Chriscariot? That Kiss Was Not Platonic?)
• Lucifer x Michael, Paradise Lost (seriously at a loss. Swordbringer? General Morningstar?)
• Jesus x Lucifer, Paradise Lost… and also maybe the Bible, again. (I’m gonna go with “Allstar” for this one. Get it? Almighty x Morningstar? Or maybe “Prince Squared,” ‘cause they’re the Princes of Peace and Darkness, respectively.)
• Jesus x Michael x Lucifer as messy love triangle possibly resolved into an OT3, Paradise Lost – and all that inappropriately sexy religious art. (I guess that would make this “General Allstar”)

@seidrade, I’m copy-pasting your comment so that all the people I tagged don’t get a notification for every reblog. Because WTF Tumblr it’s like you’re deliberately trying to get worse.

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Ha! I mean, that metric basically puts any Loki pairing on the chopping block.

Steve/Loki? Nope

Tony/Loki? Definitely not

Bucky/Loki? Get real

Natasha/Loki? Pfff

Darcy/Loki? Omg stop

Fandral/Loki? *cries*

Clint/Loki? You animal

Sam/Loki? I can’t even

Wanda/Loki? Jesus wept

Coulson/Loki? Sweetie no

Bruce/Loki? *screeching*

Fury/Loki? Are you out of your goddamn mind

T’Challa/Loki? This isn’t even a real pairing, fuck off

The results are in… Loki is unshippable!

But then wait… Bucky’s an antagonist for a bit there. I mean, he tries to kill Steve! And like, everyone else. So does that make Bucky/Loki okay, as long as Bucky is still the Winter Soldier?

If so, that would mean Stucky is potentially a villain/protagonist relationship, depending on when it’s set. Unless you personally hate Steve, in which case they’re both antagonists so it’s fine… unless it’s set after Bucky has his memories and mind back, in which case he’d be the protagonist and Steve would be the villain, and that’s no good.

Hm, but wait… then Buckynat gets confusing, because Bucky and Natasha could both be considered protagonists or antagonists depending on the time frame, or whether you’re in the 616 or MCU. This is getting tricky…

I guess Clintasha could also be a villain/protagonist pairing, depending on whether it’s set before or after Clint convinces Natasha to switch sides. But wait, a bunch of SHIELD was secretly Hydra. So even after Natasha comes to work for Fury, does that mean she’s still kind of a villain? Maybe that makes Clint a bit of a villain too— whew, crisis averted. Let them be awful together.

Oh shit, I forgot about the Guardians. What about Starlord and Gamora? I mean, Gamora is a canon villain. What gives?! That’s pretty irresponsible of the filmmakers to put dangerous ideas in people’s heads like that. And that whole “romance” with Wanda and Vision… I mean, Wanda helps Ultron and wants to kill Tony, she’s definitely a villain. There’s no way she should be allowed to fall in love with Vision (I mean, he’s an android who tried to keep her under house arrest, so his ethics and morality are debatable, but he did stop Ultron??? so that makes him good??? Unlike Wanda, who is dating a robot who’s been alive for all of 3-4 years, does that make her a pedophile?)

Anyway, getting back on track— Tony’s weaponry did kill Wanda’s parents… but then he had a change of heart and stopped manufacturing weapons. And now they’re both Avengers, so they’re both technically heroes? Or they were, until Steve and Tony became mutual villains. So maybe Superhusbands is okay because they’re both villains? (Even though Steve is technically a criminal so more of a villain than Tony? Does that matter?) Shit, is it okay to ship Wanda/Steve? Probably not, right? Unless it was after Wanda becomes a protagonist but before Steve becomes a criminal mastermind? I can’t make sense of this, moving on! I had a point to make about Loki pairings, didn’t I?

Ah, yes… what about Valki and Frostmaster? I mean, Valkyrie sells Thor and plenty of other people into gladiatorial slavery. So is Valki okay, as long as it’s set while her and Loki are both still villains, before Valkyrie has a change of heart and joins the Revengers? Or is it not okay because she was technically a hero a long time ago and just lapsed for a millennium or two?

And what about the Grandmaster? I mean, he’s technically more of a villain in Ragnarok than Loki… sure, he’s adorable and also Jeff Goldblum, but he runs a slave planet, makes Thor fight the Hulk, cuts Thor’s hair, I could go on. So is Frostmaster okay, since both him and Loki are villains? Ooh, what if it’s dubcon Frostmaster? Because then it’s just one 100% undeniable villain being villainous to another 100% undeniable villain, so like no question here, definitely no protagonists involved anywhere.

Unless by merit of contrast to the Grandmaster, Loki experiences villain decay and just becomes a regular old anti-hero… I mean come to think of it, he does help the rebels who want to overthrow the Grandmaster. He helped Thor fight Hela and save the Asgardian people. He also died avenging Frigga and kept Thor from being banished from Asgard, even offered him the throne. Hm. This is just too complicated.

Forget everything I just said. Loki isn’t unshippable!

It’s just that the only person you can safely ship Loki with is himself. That’s it. Otherwise it just gets too tricky…

Unless you’re talking about all the 616 Lokis. Don’t even go there. NO.

DON’T.

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You might think you’re joking, but there are definitely people who don’t think you should ship Loki with any of the Avengers because he’s evil and fought them and therefore it’s abusive. Of course, these are very likely the same antis who give people shit for even being fans of Loki in the first place, so it might be a moot point.

In the anti mindset, there’s no such thing as a temporary villain. I assume they get their understanding of who’s a hero and who’s a villain from narrative coding rather than an objective assessment of the character’s actions, so that means Natasha, Wanda, and Valkyrie are all heroes, but Loki will never stop being a villain. I assume that for such people Bucky is also a hero because he was mostly presented as an innocent victim even in The Winter Soldier. Nonetheless, Tony might still end up categorized as a villain because he’s presented that way in Civil War, and let’s face it, anyone who has trouble with moral gray areas is going to end up siding with Steve over Tony. Not because Steve is more right in CA:CW – I very much think he isn’t – but because he’s the kind of character who does see things in black and white, as do the movies named after him. Besides, I’m sure the self-righteous of Tumblr love hating Tony because he’s a capitalist.

I can’t imagine that villain antis go in for dubcon and noncon… but they also tend to be retributivists, so maybe they’d be fine with one villain raping another as (indirect) punishment for villainy. So maybe Frostmaster is OK. And whatever you call Loki x Thanos… Titanfrost?

I wonder how villain antis feel about Kylux (Kylo Ren x General Hux), which is presumably consensual. It’s kind of a crack ship to begin with (though there’s some very good non-cracky fic out there), so maybe it’s OK? Except that it involves humanizing villains and maybe even wanting them to be happy, even if it’s just with each other, so that’s probably no good.

The main point was the blasphemous ships, though, so I hope you enjoyed that 😛