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Thank you, anon.
Lol… In so much as you can have a personal understanding when it comes to discussing aliens. But yes, I have personal experience with people doubting how much pain I’m in, and so I take issue when people gauge someone’s pain based on their ability to continue functioning. Furthermore, I’ve had numerous experiences when I’ve been in intense pain, but as soon as painkillers kick in I have a spring in my step. That relief can make a person very springy. So the whole idea that Loki springing up means he couldn’t have really been in pain is weird to me.
Taking sides with Thor and Loki is such a weird thing to see in the Thorki fandom (which most of the people I follow belong to). You’d think you’d like both of them, care about both of them when they’re in pain, etc. if you were going to ship them together. I like examining their flaws, suffering, and good qualities. I might focus more on Loki, since I’ll admit I find his struggles more compelling, but I have a great deal of sympathy for Thor. I love him. I think he’s a good, altruistic person (unlike Loki who I would call a neutral, selfish person), and it’s a shame he had Odin for a father (more on that Moday ;D).
As I said, I don’t hate Thor for using the obedience disk on Loki, but I do find it uncomfortable that he leaves it going (as I also just find it uncomfortable when it’s used at all… it’s a gross device), because I do think of the obedience disk as a torture device (it’s designed to force people to obey a man who enjoys watching people kill each other for sport…). I don’t think Thor would torture Loki, so I call bullshit on him just leaving it running when he no longer needs to disable Loki to enable his escape from Sakaar. Thor’s characterization in Ragnarok is entirely too cruel and thoughtless imo, even when one factors in his father’s passing.
Valkyrie begins her part in Ragnarok as someone complicit in the enslavement of Thor and others.
Her actions with Thor aren’t excusable. She disables him with a torture device and sells him into slavery. Thor even gets frustrated with her for this.
In her grief, she’s forgone any sense of duty to other people. She’s allowed herself to become selfish. She earns her redemption by helping to free the slaves, and by going to fight Hela.
Other people’s experience may be different, but it seems that within the Thorki fandom, all of the side-taking favors Thor at Loki’s expense. With people who have been in the fandom longer, this seems to be a knee-jerk over-reaction to the “Loki apologists” (i.e., unconditional justifiers) of “Loki’s Resistance.” With more recent entrants, it seems to be a matter of people having watched Ragnarok first and just accepted its characterization of Thor and Loki and presentation of their relationship – namely: Thor is Always Right; his only flaw is trusting Loki too much, and it was great that he wised up and gave Loki his comeuppance; and Loki is an “overdramatic pissbaby” who has no legitimate complaints against Thor or anyone else in Asgard and just needs to grow up and get over himself.
There definitely are people who always take Loki’s side and demonize Thor – the aforementioned “Loki’s Resistance”; but in my experience, such people are never Thorki shippers. They usually ship Loki with themselves, or with OFCs (often fantasy self-inserts); sometimes they name the OFC Sigyn for some mythological respectability. Maybe you get the occasional Sif/Loki or Frostiron shipper in this category. They are wildly off-base in their interpretation and assessment of both Thor’s and Loki’s actions, but at least they’re consistent in not shipping someone they consider morally perfect with someone they consider morally bankrupt.
What I absolutely do not understand is why people who think Thor is a blameless cinnamon roll would ship him with Loki if they think Loki is nothing but a narcissistic, self-absorbed, sadistic piece of shit who fucks people over for no reason. So… you basically hate one member of your OTP? If you really think that, go ship Thor with Steve or someone equally bland and virtuous. And yeah, I know that shipping isn’t necessarily about healthy relationships. God knows I don’t think Thor/Loki is a healthy relationship as it stands, though maybe with a LOT of work it could be. But I also don’t think I could get behind a ship that involves one party you think is perfect and another party who you think needs to be whipped into shape/beaten into submission by the first party. That’s not even interesting. Give me a ship where both partners are flawed, where they have the opportunity to grow and change together.
Loki is the Philosopher King 